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Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2005, 08:05:30 AM »


How much influence on ball flight, spin etc. does the direction of mowing actually have?


I remember back in the 1980's when ANGC was striped out, hearing an interview with Greg Norman, where he said "while chipping and pitching around the greens, he would aim for a dark stripe to kill the ball, and a light stripe to get it to release."
"chief sherpa"

TEPaul

Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2005, 08:20:35 AM »
"OK, Tommy, maybe you can answer this one!
How much influence on ball flight, spin etc. does the direction of mowing actually have?  If the answer is "not much" then isn't it just an eye candy issue from the point of view of the player?"

Rich:

You did not disappoint---that sure is a stupid question!  ;)

How much influence does the direction of cut have on ball flight??

I guess one could safely conclude not much at all since the when in flight the ball is in the air not on the ground. ;)

As far as whether the darker side (into the grain) slows the ball down much during rollout compared to the lighter side (down grain) my feeling is that would be extremely minimal at best.

It really cracked me up a few years ago during the US Senior Open at at Essex (I believe it was) in Boston when some of the pros actually tried to hit their drives down the light half of the fairway thinking they'd get yards more roll. Even Johnny Miller commentating got into it.

So to answer your question about whether the up and back (dark half/light half) is just eye candy, I'd say definitely not. If it can get good players and others to actually think they'll garner significant additional rollout by driving down the light side I'd say it could be considered a pretty good psychological hazard, wouldn't you Richard the Magnificent? If that's what that mow pattern can do it would seem to some it's psychologically effectively narrowed the fairway to about half. And in my book if a mow pattern can accomplish that in the mind (rather slow mind I might add ;) ) of any golfer it's worth doing for that reason alone. :)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 08:23:25 AM by TEPaul »

ForkaB

Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2005, 08:29:02 AM »
Thanks, Pete.

Tom

Read Pete's post above.

TEPaul

Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2005, 09:04:02 AM »
"Tom
Read Pete's post above."

Rich:

I did read his post above and before writing mine. Once again, if that up and back (dark and light) mow pattern can get golfers believing that and choosing various shots accordingly the pattern is definitely of worth in my book. What Norman felt is basically the same thing those tour pros in the US Senior Open felt only they believed it had an effect on their tee shots and Norman is talking about chips which would seem to be a bit more of a reasonable thought than tee shots.  ;)

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2005, 09:53:04 AM »
I feel that traditional, up and back, half and half, B & W what ever you want to call it is the way to go for a Classic course.




Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2005, 02:09:35 PM »
Steve that is a nice looking hole. Ever had the temptation to stick a bunker on the corner of the dog leg and trim those trees back a bit?

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2005, 02:23:48 PM »
Marc,
  I'm pretty sure that pic is from Yale Golf Club. Scott Ramsey would be the guy to direct your comments to.....good luck trying to change a classic... ;D

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2005, 03:46:55 PM »
The use of a fairway mower that allows you to catch grass clippings is important if you want to promote bentgrass over poa annua. Poa annua has a shallower root system, and therefore requires more water, which in turn softens the fairway. So I have always used the grass clipping catchers, when I mow fairways. Stripping fairways is easier for the operators when you are catching the clippings.

Yes stripping is more time consuming, but the cost of poa annua infested fairways is also quite costly.

The method of mowing fairways seems to have had a huge influence on the game. The reason why we have the hour-glassed shaped approach goes back to the days when we pulled gang mowers behind tractors on fairways. The tractor made a tight turn at the approach, and the mowers more or less followed a circular pattern. If you look at the old pictures of fairways being mowed by horse drawn 36" single reel mowers, the short cut to the approaches were wide open. But with the rubber tired tractor, and the ability to pull several gang mowers at a time, the approaches to the greens went through a radical change. This seems to corespond, not coincidently I think, with the aerial game.

One of the things we need to think about when we restore older golf courses is the removal of the hour-glassed shaped approach. The grass in front of the green should be taken down to fairway height to allow for roll in to the putting surface.

With the newer lightweight mowers that we have today for fairways, there is no reason for the hourglass shaped approach. We have grown so used to seeing it and associating it with the green, it does look odd to our eyes when you remove it. But removing it opens up all kinds of cool playing options.

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2005, 08:33:44 PM »
Marc/Tony,

That's Eastward Ho!

Bradley,

?

Steve

RDecker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2005, 08:29:02 AM »
The drawback to the Up & Back mowing everyday is that you'll get the grass laying over in the respective direction it's been mowed.  The remedy for this however is to us a large brush and brush the pattern out of the turf every so often. The brushes stand the grass up and are relative low impact. Some of the high end classic clubs have been doing this.  If budget concerns are an issue you're going to have to mix it up every so often.

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2005, 10:40:26 AM »
Spot on Bob,  I started brushing, mowing side to side, mowing in the opposite direction and had great results.  Throw in some vertical mowing and its all good.  ;)  

its the difference between...


and


Steve
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 10:41:35 AM by Steve Curry »

RDecker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2005, 12:16:10 PM »
Steve, I'd really like to see you in the second jacket, Maybe with a kilt to finish off the ensemble.

Grant Davey

Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2005, 01:15:54 PM »
Splitting the fairway and mowing what I like to refer to affectionately as Black and Tan, is less time consuming then stripping.

The Pros: Reduced labor costs, Equipment costs, Fuel costs, Asthetically fits the course, Reduced wear on surrounding area, Convenience of training new operators.
The Cons: Limited direction of cut, so the need for additional verticutting or brushing, Concentrated wear on ends of the fairways, Limited vision on cut line for overlap

We have 32 acres of Fairway with 7:00am Tee times in season, I can send out one less Fairway mower and stay ahead of play cutting a Black and Tan then when I stripe. I will generally send out an additional Triplex operator to deal with areas which develop wear from these practices as well as to cut a clean pass adjacent to the rough.

Grant

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2005, 02:45:32 PM »
Grant-
  Great to have you on board-Can't wait to read your insight and also what you're doing at Whistling Straits. There is several other really good supers on the site, along with many great people-Look forward to reading and learning! Welcome!!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Pat Jones

Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2005, 03:00:23 PM »
Steve Curry's second jacket looks eerily like a pimped out version of the Ross tartan worn by ASGCA members.

Coincidence or subliminal message?  Hmmmm...

PJ

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2005, 03:11:21 PM »
PJ., that is funny, I was thinking the same thing.  I'm pretty sure that is Jeff Brauer's tux, used to MC ASGCA roasts, when he was the Prez... ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2005, 05:00:54 PM »
Pat,

Oh Boy, leave it to you Pat to throw me in the Hot Seat.   ;)

No inferences made by the similarity of the patterns.

Bob,

It wasn't good enough that I modeled the first tux?

Steve

Eric Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2005, 08:42:12 AM »
Spot on Bob,  I started brushing, mowing side to side, mowing in the opposite direction and had great results.  Throw in some vertical mowing and its all good.  ;)  

its the difference between...



Steve

Steve,
Is the second jacket the Official Turfnet Beer & Pretzel lounge jacket???  It does look comfy..... ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 09, 2005, 08:42:47 AM by Eric Johnson »

Pat Jones

Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2005, 09:43:30 AM »
Eric:

I think you should recommend that idea to Pete McCormick.  They should all have to wear a Fez as well.  The event would look like some kind of deranged Turf Shriner's convention.

PJ

RDecker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2005, 10:06:40 AM »
Mr. Davey,  Love the term Black & Tan, it reminds me of ...
anyway the idea of using the triplex in wear areas is a good one but you'll definitely loose out on some of your savings in time and money.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2005, 11:15:30 AM »
RDecker,
  We use a triplex in some of our more shaded area but also on our clean up passes to get that tight, clean clut on the the edge of the fairway. Sometimes using a lightweight mower saves grass, though it may not be the most effective.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2005, 08:55:14 AM »
To me it's less about saving money and more about crisp, classical presentation.


Take it a step further and less busy and stop mowing 3 heights of rough.  "I have intermediate rough... between the fairway and fescue"

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2005, 01:17:21 PM »

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2005, 03:57:27 AM »
Steve

That's a great picture above. What course is it? It reminds me of some of the Surrey Heathland courses (see below).

Marc.


Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fairway mowing patterns?
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2005, 05:57:29 AM »
Marc,

Old Sandwich.

Steve

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