False fronts on short par 4's

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have felt that a false front on short par 4's is one of the best defenses to the modern game for the low handicap to tour level players. What are some of the better examples of this feature?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tiger - you need look no further than the hole behind Martin's shit-eating grin on the My Favorite Martin topic.

#9 CPC.

No?

[Mike Hendren]

The 5th at Cuscowilla when trying to access a back-right pin from the right-hand fairway.

[A_Clay_Man]

#11 Pacific Grove is one of my favs. The fascinating part is the reverse side of the FF, has a slight downslope causing even more frustration, to the golfer, until he figures it out.

The FF presents wonderful options and challenges on any length hole.

[Stan Dodd]

Adam,
i was just thinking of #11 at PG, which , by the way, is now #2 as they have again reversed nines for the ongoing construction of the debacle..  The old club house is gone and the new putting green is roughed in as well as the new tee for #1. As the auditor reviews the books...
Cheers
stan

[David Ownby]

Not sure if this qualifies as a true false-front, but the front third of the 6th green at Holston Hills is severly sloped. The hole plays approximately 300 yds from the tips and I continually see good players try to approach a front pin placement with a half-swing lob wedge and walk away with bogey or worse.

[Tom_Doak]

The 12th on the Old Course at St. Andrews is the original, unless of course it's the 18th.

[Mike Benham]

Adam,
i was just thinking of #11 at PG, which , by the way, is now #2 as they have again reversed nines for the ongoing construction of the debacle.

[ForkaB]

Tiger - you need look no further than the hole behind Martin's shit-eating grin on the My Favorite Martin topic.

#9 CPC.

No?

Tom

Remembering my first shot a that cherry, where I nutted my drive down wind and it landed 5-10 yards short of the green and stopped as if first seeing the face of Medusa, I have to say that if you use this feature, you should allow for a ground game option off the tee.  Dr. Mack didn't, but that was 70+ years ago before the ProV1x, and he is forgiven.

For a really good example see the 12th at the Old Course.  Neophytes may think that the front 2/3 of that green complex is green, but it is really just a closely mown false front.

[Tom Huckaby]

Rich:

That tee shot of yours did get screwed.  But I don't think this means the greatness of the golf hole is somehow lessened  Hear me out.

1.  First, remember that pitch shots can be run up to the front right pin.  I've done so, and it works even in wet times.  The ball has to going low and fast, but it will work.  

2. With this in mind, in wet times, knowing that there's no guarantee the ball is going to make it to the green with a normal run out of a driver might just seal the deal for the more conservative and put an iron in their hands, but also might tighten the screws even more for the bold, knowing they have to REALLY nut it to get it on or close enough to have an easy chip/putt up the front.

I have no doubt the hole works best when it is firm and fast, which it must be at least a large part of the time.  My points above are just meant to say it still works even in the wetter conditions you faced....

Good call re #12 TOC.

[A_Clay_Man]

Huck, Rihc ... I dont remember the front of the ninth at CP as a FF. Lord knows you've seen it many more times than I.

 Is it truely a FF?

Stan...
I love that word, debacle.

The auditors need look no further. That picture of the bunker on #11 shows precisely where all the money went. Thank G- when I golfed here it was it's nasty narly evolved self.

Cary, I Suppose those clean lines are appealing to you. They are grotesque nursemaids reduced to such by the lead debacler.

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam - I'd call the front right portion a false front for sure.

But maybe I am unclear on the term.  I thought it meant a portion of the green on which the ball won't stay, due to gravity.  At normal speed the right front of #9 CPC certainly meets that definition.

TH

[Bill Gayne]

I don't know if this is what you guys are getting at but a false front is much more visually deceptive to me if you are playing above the hole because visually the grade flattens out. If you are even with hole or slightly below, as in the picture, it's much easier to see the false front because the angle shows the grade.

The toughest false front for me is about a mid to long iron shot that I'm standing about ten to twenty feet above the hole. Visually the slope on the fron of the green flattens out.

[Jeff Goldman]

About 40% of the 16th green on the South Course at Olympia Fields is a false front (the hole is about 360).  Better players tend to hit high shots that spin right off it, which is often really hilarious.  They get quite frustrated when time after time they end up at the bottom (course that is dangerous because someone is always suggesting raising up the front so it isn't so "unfair").  The rest of us often just run it up there with anything from 5-9 irons.

Jeff Goldman

[Adam_Messix]

A good example from a modern course is 17 at Hudson National.  The approach is uphill to a plateau green.  From the fairway it doesn't look like that big an issue, but I watched an approach shot that appeared to be well onto the green, reappear coming down the slope and a few yards into the fairway.  I really like the hole and it's location is perfect being between two really long, difficult holes.

[Walker_Taylor]

#13 at Pinehurst #2 fits the bill.

[Scott Stearns]

17th at Hudson represents a good example of what you are describing.  The player is asked to hit a wedge from a steep uphill lie into a green with an 8 foot false front.  The player can't see the bottom of the flagstick, and the green slopes toward the back, after the false front.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hollywood has a number of them and the 1st at NGLA isn't bad.

[mike_beene]

When C&C redid my home course greens the biggest change was some wicked false fronts,a few new and a few recaptured.I think it makes the course several shots harder while still rewarding a good short game.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Beene,

How could I forget.

Almost every hole at Hidden Creek has a false front of varying scale.

[Doug Siebert]

Tiger - you need look no further than the hole behind Martin's shit-eating grin on the My Favorite Martin topic.

#9 CPC.

No?

Tom

Remembering my first shot a that cherry, where I nutted my drive down wind and it landed 5-10 yards short of the green and stopped as if first seeing the face of Medusa, I have to say that if you use this feature, you should allow for a ground game option off the tee.  Dr. Mack didn't, but that was 70+ years ago before the ProV1x, and he is forgiven.

For a really good example see the 12th at the Old Course.  Neophytes may think that the front 2/3 of that green complex is green, but it is really just a closely mown false front.

The 12th is the perfect example.  When I was there last back in 2001 I hit a great drive into a fairly light wind and it cleared everything and rolled up on the green directly at the pin -- for a moment I thought it had a shot at going in.  But it reached the very top of the false front and looked for a moment like it would hang on, then fell back down.  My caddie was just telling me what a terrific drive it was when I mumbled something about getting screwed to my dad, but he couldn't see the ball.  He asks me if it went into the pot bunker, I said no, it looked like it was going in the hole then it fell back down the hill on the front of the green.

My caddie and I walk up there as the others play their way up and we reach my ball and I'm looking it sitting down there with the pin cut immediately behind the top of the slope and my caddie says something like "just because this is mown as part of the green doesn't make it such, you'll do very well to two putt from here."  It'd been 10 years since I played there before and didn't remember exactly how bad it was to play from there.  Its probably worse than the Valley of Sin, at least with the hole cut there, because you obviously don't want to leave it short but if you want to get it close it can't have much speed when it crests the hill.  I did well to only run it 4' past but my short putting was terrible that day, 'nuff said!

Few other courses would even think to mow something like that as green.  Most American courses would make the hill deep rough and totally miss the opportunity to create something interesting and infuriating like that.  It really works well on a short par 4 because when you drive the green you really feel like you should make a birdie at worst, and its not always easy to leave the green in a good frame of mind after a three putt par.

If I'd laid up on my drive it would have been much worse of course, since a pitch would be out of the question and getting the distance right on a low runner would take a much larger reserve of deftness and skill than I possess!  So I'm sure there are plenty of three putt bogies from there when the pin's in that location as well.

One question for those more familiar with TOC -- is the pin on the 12th ever located on the lower level below the "false front"?  Seems like there's enough room for a pin down there, and it sure would add a whole new dimension to the whole being able to play the ball long and have it roll back down to the hole.

[TEPaul]

With the recent restoration of my course, GMGC, which included green expansions back the original green-pads, we now have at least six false fronts of one degree or another that function a lot more effectively than before our green expansion.

My course is Ross and it seems to me from the Ross courses I'm familiar with that he used false front greens as much as any early architect.

One of the most important features of any false front green is not exactly the false front of the green itself but what the approach is like, the steepness of it in other words. This makes the reestablished false front portion of our 18th green particularly danger because if the ball released too fast off the false front it can run 50-60 yards back down the fairway very much like the 10th at Shinnecock.

To me the mother of all false front greens is the 15th green at PVGC on which 1/4 to 1/3 (depending on the greenspeed) can be false front.

[ForkaB]

To me the mother of all false front greens is the 15th green at PVGC on which 1/4 to 1/3 (depending on the greenspeed) can be false front.

Tom

That would make it the first cousin, twice removed of all false front greens compared to the 12th at the Old Course.

[TEPaul]

Rich:

Could be. I've never seen that one even in a photograph. I have no image of it at all. The interesting thing about PVGC's #15 is no one really knows who designed it or even built it. No one knows what state of development or construction that hole was in when George Crump died. It could be somewhat Wilson designed or perhaps Wilson and Flynn or even Wilson/Flynn/Govan or any combination of the above. Perhaps it's a Crump/Wilson/Flynn/Govan. In any case it is a very good one.

In my opinion, one of the best types of hole to have a false front on is a par 5, as it can have a definite way of casting its effect on strategy all the way back to the tee shot.

[Bill_McBride]

Doug, my one and only round at TOC, the pin on #12 was cut just in front of the slope up to the back tier.  I don't recall the area being really steep.  I got mucked up in some rough a bit left off the tee and hacked out just short, chipped close and was happy with a par.  Had the hole been cut on top, it would have been a bogey no doubt.