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Thomas_Brown

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2005, 12:22:49 AM »
http://www.golfdigest.com/bestnew/index.ssf?/courses/bestnew/gd200601bestnewcourses.html

I was told a few months ago that Alotian is the best new course that golfer had seen in many years.

I would think it might difficult to get enough raters out to Arkansas to see it.

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2005, 12:45:37 AM »
Here you go guys...

Best New Private
* Walking allowed anytime.

1. The Alotian Club
Roland, Ark.
7,470 yards, par 72.*
Tom Fazio,designer.
Initiation fee: undisclosed.

2. Canyata G.C.
Marshall, Ill.
7,258 yards, par 72.*
Bob Lohmann and Mike Benkusky.
Fee: undisclosed.

3. Boston G.C.
Hingham, Mass.
7,015 yards, par 71.*
Gil Hanse.
Fee: undisclosed.

4. Old Sandwich G.C.
Plymouth, Mass.
6,878 yards, par 71.*
Bill Coore and
Ben Crenshaw.
Fee: undisclosed.

5. Trump National G.C.
Bedminster, N.J.
7,560 yards, par 72.*
Tom Fazio.
Fee: $200,000.
trumpgolf.com

6. Blessings
Johnson, Ark.
7,530 yards, par 72.*
Robert Trent Jones Jr. and Bruce Charlton.
Fee: undisclosed.

7. Hualalai G.C. (Weiskopf Cse.)
Kaupulehu-Kona, Hawaii.
7,234 yards, par 72.*
Tom Weiskopf.
Fee: $150,000 and property ownership.
hualalairesort.com

8. Somerby G.C.
Byron, Minn.
7,209 yards, par 72.*
John Fought and Tom Lehman.
Fee: $30,000.
somerbygolfclub.com

9. The Pine Canyon Club
Flagstaff, Ariz.
7,248 yards, par 71.*
Jay Morrish.
Fee: $85,000.
pinecanyon.net

10. Montcalm G.C.
Enfield, N.H.
6,829 yards, par 72.*
Phil Wogan and George Sargent.
Fee: $5,600 annually.
montcalmgolfclub.com

Best New Upscale Public
* Walking allowed anytime.

1. The Wilderness at Fortune Bay
Tower, Minn.
7,010 yards, par 72.*
$86 includes cart.
Jeff Brauer, designer.
800-555-1714.
thewildernessgolf.com

2. Mattaponi Springs G.C.
Ruther Glen, Va.
6,937 yards, par 72.*
$74 ($90 with cart).
Bob Lohmann and Mike Benkusky.
804-633-7888.
mattaponisprings.com

3. Marquette G.C. (Greywalls Cse.)
Marquette, Mich.
6,828 yards, par 70.*
$125 includes cart.
Mike DeVries.
906-225-0721.
marquettegolfclub.com

4. Old Greenwood
Truckee, Calif.
7,518 yards, par 72.*
$170 includes cart.
Jack Nicklaus.
530-550-7010.
oldgreenwood.com

5. Lakota Canyon Ranch G.C.
New Castle, Colo.
7,111 yards, par 72.*
$85 includes cart.
Jim Engh.
970-984-9700.
lakotacanyonranch.com

6. May River G.C.
Bluffton, S.C.
7,171 yards, par 72.*
$240 includes cart.
Jack Nicklaus.
843-706-6580.
palmettobluffresort.com

7. Lake of Isles G.C. (North Cse.)
North Stonington, Conn.
7,252 yards, par 72.*
$195 includes cart.
Rees Jones.
888-475-3746.
lakeofisles.com

8. Poplar Grove G.C.
Amherst, Va.
7,059 yards, par 72.
$65 includes cart.
Ed Carton with Sam Snead
434-946-9933.
poplargrovegolf.com

9. Laughlin Ranch G.C.
Bullhead City, Ariz.
7,155 yards, par 72.
$135 includes cart.
David Druzisky.
928-754-1243.
laughlinranch.com

10. Reunion Resort & Club (Independence Cse.)
Reunion, Fla.
7,152 yards, par 72.
$150 includes cart.
Tom Watson and Bob Gibbons.
407-662-1100.
reunionresort.com

Best New Affordbale Public
* Walking allowed anytime.

1. Bully Pulpit G. Cse.
Medora, N.D.
7,166 yards, par 72.*
$49 ($64 with cart).
Michael Hurdzan, designer.
701-623-4653.
medora.com

2. Arrowhead Pointe at Ricahrd B. Russell
Elberton, Ga.
6,861 yards, par 72.
$42 includes cart.
Bob Walker.
706-283-6000.
arrowheadpointegc.com

3. Eagle Ridge G. Cse. at Yatesville Lake State Park
Louisa, Ky.
6,630 yards, par 71.
$43 includes cart.
Arthur Hills and Steve Forrest.
606-673-4300.
kystateparks.ky.gov

4. The Shoals G.C. (Fighting Joe Cse.)
Muscle Shoals, Ala.
8,092 yards, par 72.*
$48 ($64 with cart).
Roger Rulewich and Bobby Vaughan.
256-446-5111.
rtjgolf.com

5. Highland Meadows G. Cse.
Windsor, Colo.
7,011 yards, par 71.*
$50 ($65 with cart).
Art Schaupeter.
970-203-1119.
highlandmeadows.com

6. Angels Crossing G.C.
Vicksburg, Mich.
7,169 yards, par 72.*
$44 includes cart.
W. Bruce Matthews III.
269-649-2700.
golfangelscrossing.com

T-7. The G.C. at Stonelick Hills
Batavia, Ohio.
7,145 yards, par 72.*
$49 ($63 with cart).
Jeff Osterfeld.
513-735-4653.
stonelickhills.com

T-7. Big Fish G.C.
Hayward, Wis.
7,201 yards, par 72.*
$49 ($64 with cart).
Pete Dye and Tim Liddy.
715-934-4770.
bigfishgolf.com

9. Soldier Hollow G. Cse. (Gold Cse.)
Midway, Utah.
7,598 yards, par 72.
$38 includes cart.
Gene Bates.
435-654-7442.
stateparks.utah.gov/golf

10. Grey Hawk G.C.
Lagrange, Ohio.
7,079 yards, par 72.*
$48 includes cart.
Robert von Hagge and Mike Smelek.
440-355-4844.
greyhawkgolf.com


Best New Canadian
* Walking allowed anytime.

1. Dakota Dunes G. Links
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
7,031 yards, par 72.*
Graham Cooke and Wayne Carleton, designers.
$41 Canadian ($57 with cart).
306-244-8400.
dakotadunes.ca

2. Georgian Bay Club
Collingswood, Ontario.
7,139 yards, par 71.*
Michael Hurdzan, Dana Fry and Jason Straka.
Private club. Initiation fee: $60,000 Canadian.
519-599-9949.
georgianbayclub.com

3. Eagles Nest G.C.
Maple, Ontario.
7,476 yards, par 72.*
Doug Carrick and Cam Tyers.
$175 Canadian includes cart.
905-653-4653.
eaglesnestgolf.com


Best New Remodel
* Walking allowed anytime.

1. Brookside C.C.
Canton, Ohio.
7,155 yards, par 71.*
Brian Silva, designer.
Initiation fee: $10,000.

2. Monterey Peninsula C.C. (Shore Cse.)
Pebble Beach.
6,806 yards, par 72.*
Mike Strantz.
Initiation fee: $200,000.

3. Colleton River Plantation Club (Nicklaus Cse.)
Bluffton, S.C.
7,056 yards, par 72.*
Jack Nicklaus.
Initiation fee included with purchase of property.
colletonriver.com

4. The Country Club
Pepper Pike, Ohio.
7,129 yards, par 72.*
Brit Stenson.
Initiation fee: undisclosed.

5. The C.C. of Virginia (James River Cse.)
Richmond, Va.
7,010 yards, ar 72.*
Lester George.
Initiation fee: undisclosed.
theccv.org

6. Pine Needles Lodge & G.C.
Southern Pines, N.C.
7,015 yards, par 71.*
$225 includes cart.
John Fought.
910-692-8611.
pineneedles-midpines.com

7. Belle Meade C.C.
Nashville.
6,885 yards,
par 72.*
Rees Jones.
Initiation fee: undisclosed.

8. The Loxahatchee CLUB
Jupiter, Fla.
7,147 yards, par 72.*
Jack Nicklaus.
Initiation fee: $150,000.
theloxahatcheeclub.org

9. Druid Hills G.C.
Atlanta.
6,833 yards, par 72.*
Bob Cupp.
Initiation fee: undisclosed.
dhgc.org

10. Bear Lakes C.C. (Lakes Cse.)
West Palm Beach.
7,439 yards, par 72.
Jack Nicklaus.
Initiation fee: $45,000.
bearlakes.org

« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 01:32:46 AM by Jim Thompson »
Jim Thompson

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2005, 01:00:19 AM »
Having been unfamiliar with the winner of the best new private category, the Alotian Club, I did some googling and found a couple of sites with some good pictures of the course.  

Thought you may enjoy....

http://www.asga.org/2004%20ASGA%20Info/Alotian_Club_Pictures.htm

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/alotian/gallery.asp

Mike Erdmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2005, 06:37:36 AM »
I was surprised not to see Bandon Trails anywhere on the Best New Upscale Public list.  Anyone know if it was eligible, or if GD still has their Best New Resort Course category?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2005, 07:49:38 AM »
There is no "best new resort" category anymore; those courses just fold into the "public" categories depending on their price.

Bandon Trails did open after the May cut-off date which Golf Digest uses, however, they frequently ignore that cut-off if enough panelists have voted on the course.  (And I would have to think enough panelists got to Bandon Trails.)  But, unfortunately, there's just no telling, which is yet another flaw in their system.

The "Worst New Category," which they REALLY SHOULDN'T HAVE, is "Best New Remodel".  What are we to learn from that list of ten?  Did Brian Silva make significant changes to Brookside which are being rewarded, or is it on top because of Ross's work?  Did Brit Stinson one-up Flynn in Cleveland?  How can you possibly compare that kind of work to Jack Nicklaus taking the mounds out of Loxahatchee??

Seems like that category just encourages clubs and designers to  make changes to pursue a new DIGEST list.

wsmorrison

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2005, 08:14:37 AM »
While I think Brit Stinson did a commendable job at the Country Club in Pepper Pike, I think Tom D makes a terrific point that existing courses may well be induced to take some chances to gain standing on this new list with the likely results being negative.

Calling the list "Best New Remodel" sounds to me like it is a list that rewards and thus encourages change rather than restoration.  Unless they publish the methodology formula and we can analyze it for what it purports to be and how it arrives at its conclusion, it seems to me to be total BS (just like the rest of the rankings--perhaps less so individual rankings but as a whole).  

Would the Cascades going back faithfully to the Flynn design (as of his last redesign work sometime around 1935) fail in terms of the Remodel list since it is an almost pure restoration?  Perhaps it should.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2005, 08:15:39 AM »
I certainly hope these list are wrong, because if this is the Best New course of 2005, I will be doing no leg work and will be staying on my comfy couch.  ;)






wsmorrison

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2005, 08:16:58 AM »
Ha anybody correlated magazine rankings of resort/public courses with advertising dollars?  That might prove to be an interesting study.  

What does it say about Nicklaus being recognized for changing so many of his courses in the Best New Remodel?  That he messed up a bunch the first go round?  That he was able to get more work and fees over time from the original developer?  That he could put his ego aside and make changes for the better?  It could be a lot or all of these.  In any case, I fail to see why any of it needs to be recognized.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 08:26:10 AM by Wayne Morrison »

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2005, 08:35:02 AM »
Jim Thompson,

Congrats to Bruce Mathews III and your crew for a nice showing in the "Affordable" category!!

Ken

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2005, 08:54:37 AM »
Re The Alotian Club

Excerpts from the article at arkansasbusiness.com


"Warren Stephens is having fun playing the dual role of chauffeur and tour guide at his ultra-private development: The Alotian Club. The chairman, president and chief executive officer of Little Rock's Stephens Inc. is wheeling a golf cart around his 1,200-acre spread in west Pulaski County.

And he likes most of what he sees.

Incredible, awesome, gorgeous, fantastic, super, marvelous, wonderful, beautiful - the list of superlatives used to describe the view of tree-enshrouded ridges and Lake Maumelle grows with each successive stop around Alotian."

"The golf course turned out better than I hoped for," Stephens said.

Unlike most golfers, who can only dream of building their own course, this 47-year-old executive has the financial means to make it happen and feed the ongoing operations to sustain it.

Each of the greens features an underground system capable of cooling or warming the Bentgrass roots to a 10-degree differential with the air temperature. During the hot months, removable electric fans keep the air circulating over greens otherwise shielded by the surrounding woods. "

"Sourpuss observers might roll their eyes at Alotian and dismiss it as the extravagant, middle-aged indulgence of a very wealthy businessman. They might even frown at Alotian as an elitist enclave, an opulent statement of excess.

But the core motivation for Stephens is much more basic: He simply wanted to do something fun, and his price tolerance for fun happens to run into the millions of dollars.

Stephens is well aware that his pet project has generated plenty of curiosity. It's not every day that someone in Arkansas digs into his billfold to spend an estimated $18 million to build a golf course that few people will ever see, let alone play. "


"Stephens has invited a few select golfers from in and out of state to become non-equity members for a reported six-figure entry fee. Guests, no doubt restricted in number, will expand the Alotian census from time to time.

Stephens doesn't delve very deep into explaining the organizational structure of Alotian other than liken it to a "benevolent dictatorship."

There will be no committees haggling over clubhouse décor under his watch as the gracious generalissimo of golf.

Stephens is a member of Augusta National, whose men-only membership policy is a continuing source of criticism. But Alotian apparently will not be strictly a boys club; a locker room for women is under construction at the unfinished clubhouse. "
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 09:07:25 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Billsteele

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #85 on: December 03, 2005, 09:16:38 AM »
   Maybe it's just my bleary eyed Saturday morning perception, but the second picture of the Alotian Club that Mike Sweeney posted (with the seemingly downhill curving cart path) looks like it's modeled after Lombard Street in San Francisco.
   Also, on the basis of photos (which I know is no substitute for playing a course), at least in the private category, Massachussets and Illinois seem much more intriguing than Arkansas.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2005, 10:02:21 AM »
More tidbits about Alotian Club.

This one is excerpted from the editor's notes at arkansasbusiness.com:

"I also think it is worth noting that before he broke ground on his ultra-exclusive golf course, Stephens' family fortune paid for the construction of the most affordable golf course in the state, The First Tee of Arkansas, where shooting nine holes of golf is cheaper than going to a movie. I'm told that only one other First Tee course in the country compares with the one in Little Rock. The Stephenses have given away more money than any 100 mere mortals will ever earn."

This one is excerpted from Tidbits at arkansasbusiness.com:

Definition: a golfer who loves the game and its traditions usage The name is derived from a group of wayfaring golf enthusiasts who set out to play the top courses in the United States.

The trips became known as the America's Lights Out Tour (ALOT).

Over time, members of the group began calling themselves Alotians. The phrase "lights out" is a slang description of a golfer who is playing exceeding well.



« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 10:58:31 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2005, 10:22:33 AM »
Anybody give some background on Lohman/Benkusky design team as it appears they did quite well this year.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2005, 11:04:42 AM »
Congrats to GCA.com member David Druzisky for his Laughlin Ranch in AZ, #9 Best New Upscale Public.

www.laughlinranch.com
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

pacgd

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2005, 11:05:17 AM »
Aside from all of the previous bitches and complaints made as a result of previous GD lists, some fair, some ridiculous, the 2nd place finish in the "remodel" catagory for MPCC's Shore Course should conclusively prove that the panel needs to be disbanded or future lists printed on a thick roll of very thin tissue paper that is custom fitted by GD for the appropriate holder found in our home "reading rooms".


Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #90 on: December 03, 2005, 11:21:49 AM »
Thanks Ken!

I'm very pleased that we're considered the top non-subsidized, propery tax paying, under fifty dollar with a cart new course for 2005.  I wonder if all the courses in our catagory will still qualify next year???  ::)  I know we will ;D

See you next summer?

JT
Jim Thompson

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #91 on: December 03, 2005, 12:05:41 PM »
Also, on the basis of photos (which I know is no substitute for playing a course), at least in the private category, Massachussets and Illinois seem much more intriguing than Arkansas.

Bill,

NEVER underestimate the influence of The Hillbilly Tour.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Ian Andrew

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2005, 12:46:51 PM »
Does this process actually identify the best golf course built each year ?

I enjoy looking back over the years to see what has risen in stature, as opposed to what is now largely yesterday's course.


Matt_Ward

Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #93 on: December 03, 2005, 03:05:33 PM »
I had the opportunity to play a number of affordable designs and while Bully Pulpit does have its moments -- they only come for the final third of your round there before you take on the Badlands which ultimately should have been used much more thoroughly.

The par-3 15th -- approximately 140 yards is one of the grand short holes you can play among the affordable public types anywhere in the USA. Just a real pucker of a shot to play when the wind is howling.

Unfortunately, Hurdzan uses a fairly basic routing / strategic plan for the early holes and as I sat at the outset it's not until you get the final six to the qualities shine through in a big time way.

I have to also congrats to Art Schaupeterfor his success with Highland Meadows G. Cse. in Windsor, CO. Here you have a very unique routing plan that provides for plenty of width and for those who enjoy the designs of Keith Foster -- Art worked with him and you can see many of the unique aspects that make playing there so unique.

Unfortunately, Digest raters fumbled the ball in not including the likes of Rochelle Ranch in Rawlins, WY and Antler Creek in Falson, CO. Colorado is truly the home of top tier affordable golf and after Digest did well in identifying Rick Phelps work at Devil's Thumb in Delta -- second to Rustic Canyon a few years back -- there's little reason for the ignorance shown to Antler Creek.

The layout gets "tagged" as an 8,000-yard layout but the quality of the holes and driving demands are certainly well done. Hard to believe when you come upon the entrance to the site with housing engulfing all sections but the layout fits quite well within.

Lastly, Rochelle Ranch is a supreme effort by Ken Kavanaugh. The Rawlins layout -- immediately off I-80 -- is well done inspite of the turf issues they had on a few holes. For those who love Wild Horse you will see a much more stronger version of that type of course with Rochelle Ranch. You have plenty of challenges, sufficient width to handle the strong winds and green contours that fade gently off the sies for those lacking the steady hand with the irons.

 

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2005, 03:08:52 PM »
Just how does one go about getting America's guest to be their guest??????
Jim Thompson

Pete Buczkowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2005, 05:39:19 PM »
Just how does one go about getting America's guest to be their guest??????

Jim - First congrats to Bruce and your team...glad to see your golf course get the recognition it deserves.  I spoke w/ Sir Guest about this while I was in SF so he is definitely aware of your place; and with Kingsley and Crystal Downs calling him hopefully he'll get out your way.

Andy Silis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #96 on: December 04, 2005, 04:35:46 AM »
Jim!

Congrats to you and Bruce! The recognition is richly deserved! I'll be bringing you a really good bottle from my cellar when I visit your neck of the woods next ( Spring 06 ) and we'll toast Angels Crossing properly!!!

Regards,

Andy Silis!

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #97 on: December 04, 2005, 08:25:54 PM »
I want to go to Tower Minnesota.  Just down the road from embarass.  Now if you are really lucky you can also tour the Tower-Sudan mine.  Nothing like a serious roller coaster ride into the bowels of the earth-not to be missed.  

More on topic, has the crop of new courses been poorer due to the economic difficulties since 2000, and is 2006 going to be a banner year because the economy is improving and a lot of projects took advantage of low interest rates and the booming real estate scene?

Matt Vandelac

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2005, 11:08:44 PM »
Mr. Cosgove:
Not sure what you're referring to about the weak class.  I am familiar with quite a few of the courses rumored to have made the list and although there is no Sand Hills, Friars Head, or Bandon representation, it seems to me that there is some really talented people out there doing some great work.  
I have some questions for any raters or those in the know: Conditioning is not supposed to be a huge factor, but it appears to me that it becomes a huge factor.  What % of the overall grade relates to conditioning?  Is there a line item for facilities, unfinished areas outside of the play areas, or surrounding homesites?
Thanks Golf Digest for putting together the most compehensive research mechansim to find the best courses we have so far...    

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best New for '05 ?
« Reply #99 on: December 04, 2005, 11:29:24 PM »
Mr. Cosgove,

Yes, the Soudan Mine is worth the trip into the bowels of the earth.  I took that trip, and if they are right, at least part of that mine is actually under the 13th at the Wilderness! One of my other favorite non golf diversions up there was the Vin Shute (?) Bear Preserve, north of Tower another 40 miles in Cook, or the Timberwolf museum east in Ely, assuming you don't just venture into the boundary waters area.

I actually saw a lot of wildlife on the courses during construction. Of course, mostly (other than field work) most of what I did was golf! (no casino time for me)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach