Best New for '05 ?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

Was Pradera eligible for 2005? It opened in June. I played there in August and thought it was well done but slightly less than the more scenic Lakota Canyon.

Steve

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

You raise a good point -- unfortunately, Digest has been known to bounce courses to second years of a "Best New" situation (see Kingsley Club) and still remain eligible.

Pradera may likely have to go to next year when as Tom Doak mentioned the intensity of the competition will be truly heightened because of the various candidates.

P.S Steve -- Pradera is the more compelling course from a shot values standpoint -- it may not equal the scenic elements of Lakota (both onsite and offsite) but Pradera puts a much higher premium on positioning one's golf ball.

[Robert Thompson]

Matt: Any idea when this will be announced publicly and any sense of what the Canadian winner was?

RT

[Pete Buczkowski]

SPDB:

B-I-N-G-O !!!!

Jeff Brauer claims back-to-back wins in the upscale category with The Quarry at Giants Ridge last year and The Wilderness at Fortune Bay (see the "fortune" clue provided earlier to Dan K) claiming the top honors this year.

Hats off to Jeff for the stunning achievement given the nature of the field this year -- Lakota Canyon Ranch, Greywalls, etc, etc.

I'm looking forward to going to play both courses next year.

Guess I need to get off of the couch (or is it on the couch   ) and post my profile w/pics of the Wilderness...try for this weekend.

Congrats Jeff.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

Robert:
Perhaps something in the Maple area?
A large American birdie told me so.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

So what do we know so far?

Canyata is #2 Private

Fortune Bay is #1 Upscale Public

Fazio has a course/courses somewhere.

Pradera, Boston GC and Old Sandwich were shut out- if they were eligible.

We need the complete list!!!

Steve

[Jeff_Brauer]

Nothing like good "fortune" for the winning architect there.

Hmm, I had Chinese today, and the cookie didn't say anything about major awards.  (If it had, I would suspect that a ugly leg shaped lamp would show up, a la "The Christmas Story" shown endlessly on TNT each year)

Actually, my slip of paper read, "That wasn't chicken!"

[Jason McNamara]

Was the newer course at Redstone (where the tour has the Shell Houston Open) near the top?  I don't know whether it was ew this year, though.

Tim -

The new Redstone course (the Rees one) opened at the end of the summer, so it's probably in the hopper for next year.

Jason

[Robert Thompson]

Anyone know when the issue hits news stands since Matt has suddenly gone quiet?

[Robert Thompson]

Apparently the results for the GD Best New will be posted on their website on Tuesday, according to their PR staff.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Pradera opened in mid-May of this year -- I actually played the course two days before the "official" opening. I can't see why the course could not have been eligible because raters --some of whom are on this site -- actually played the course in '05.

If I was Pradera I would much rather have been included for this year instead of being wrongly bounced into next year when the competition in the private category only intensifies several times over.

Hard for me to believe Jim Engh didn't come remotely close with some of his efforts.

P.S. Steve -- Boston GC and Old Sandwich were eligible -- I simply said neither won first place in the Best New Private category.

[Dan Kelly]

Hmm, I had Chinese today, and the cookie didn't say anything about major awards.  (If it had, I would suspect that a ugly leg shaped lamp would show up, a la "The Christmas Story" shown endlessly on TNT each year)

A "dog-leg lamp" would be a fine GD trophy, don't you think?

[Joel_Stewart]

Has anyone mentioned Monterey Peninsula CC, Mike Strantz last course?

[Jim Franklin]

Matt said it was not an East or West Coast course, but no specific mention of the Strantz gem.

[Jason Mandel]

Strantz/Fezler design did not nominate their course for "Best New" category.  Instead, they nominiated it for "Best Renovation".

[Tom Huckaby]

Jason - are you being tongue in cheek about this?  I'm looking right at our list of candidates for Best New in 2005, and MPCC-Shore sure as hell is on it.  I also didn't know there was such a thing as "Best Renovation" category.

OK I am a big fish and my just be ready to be reeled in.  But I also tend to assume people always know more than I do, thus this post.

 

[Jason Mandel]

Tom,

My apoligies then, I guess I must have been thinking about a different magazine.

I played golf with Forrest at the Dixie Cup and I thought he told me that they decided not to nominate the course for "Best New" .  I obviously must have mistaken the magazine though.

Jason

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

My apoligies then, I guess I must have been thinking about a different magazine.

I played golf with Forrest at the Dixie Cup and I thought he told me that they decided not to nominate the course for "Best New" .  I obviously must have mistaken the magazine though.

Jason

Jason - the various magazines do do this differently, as we've beaten to death many times in here.  But anyway MPCC-Shore is definitely a Best New candidate for Golf Digest.  Of course it wont surprise me a bit if it wins no honors - not because it doesn't deserve such, I very much think it does - but because the way this is calculated combined with the wildly differing opinions among GD raters described by Jim and Joel means no result should really surprise anyone.

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Keep in mind Digest now has a restoration award too and such projects aren't lumped into the overall best new types that are given out.

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt:

So which one would MPCC-Shore be up for?  I'm staring right at our list of Best New nominated courses and it's on there.  We also don't have a separate list of nominations for Best Restorations though... and as I look at the list of Best New, I don't see any other obvious restorations....

Not that I doubt you one bit - you remain the world's expert on these matters.  But just do clarify where MPCC falls.  And if it is as a Restoration, is the editors, the course, or the architect who makes the decision which list to be nominated for?

Note logically, MPCC-Shore simply cannot be called a "restoration" - it is a nearly complete re-do, the routing being completely different after the 4th hole.  Calling it "New" makes way more sense to me.

But they don't ask me to make these calls.  
TH

[Matt_Ward]

Huck:

Unless I'm wrong -- Monterey would be in the updated / restoration / modernized, call it what you will, category.

Maybe the '05 Facelift Awards !!!

[Tom Huckaby]

So there is a separate catch-all category like this?

And if that's the case, why the hell is MPCC-Shore on our Best New nominated list?

I suppose I could ask the powers that be at GD.  I just find you tend to not mind bothering you.  

I could also wait until Tuesday and read for myself.  But what's the fun of that?

TH

[Jason Mandel]

Huck-

I'm pretty sure the architecht gets to decide which category they want to be considered for.

Jason

[Tom Huckaby]

Jason - again nothing would surprise me about how this gets done, but that to me makes little sense also.  This isn't an award given to architects, it's an award given to COURSES.  You'd think the club management/members would have a little say in the matter.

As for MPCC itself, I doubt they care, although we do have quite a nice expert to ask on the matter.

[texsport]

Congratulations to Jeff Brauer for accomplishing back-to-back winners!