Best New for '05 ?

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:  I second that.

Sean:  It is bad enough that some clients lean on us heavily not to do another course anywhere close to theirs, so that I have to travel all over the place instead of doing two in the same area at the same time.  (I would never consider taking a course which I felt would significantly hurt another client ... as one example, I declined to make a proposal on the Dismal River Club once it was clear that Ballyneal was going forward.)  But certainly clients cannot ask us not to do other private courses in other states that might compete with theirs for some silly magazine award!  

On top of all the other factors, I never have any idea when I sign a contract when (or whether) any particular course will actually be built, and when we will get paid for the same.

[Jason Blasberg]

I find this entire thread pointless if we don't know the courses that were named.

I find it hard to believe, however, that anything eligible tops BGC.  

[Jim Franklin]

It is Matt's game for us to guess. You're not having fun, huh? I find it hard to believe that something was better than Old Sandwich, but after the GD Summit, I am not surprised.

[Jerry Kluger]

Jim: What do you mean by the last part of your comment?

[Tom Huckaby]

Jerry - Jim seems to be off-line (what, you mean there's a life outside of this forum?) - so I'll take the liberty of answering for him, since he and I have discussed his impressions of the GD summit...

And I think what he means to say there is that opinions differed SO wildly in the course rating example they did down there - GC "New" course -that no weird opinion or consensus on courses nominated for Best New could possibly surprise anyone.

Jim, feel free to tear me a new one if I got this wrong.

TH

[Jim Franklin]

GD had all of the attendees play the same course and submit evaluations to be discussed the next day. I was blown away by the variance in scores for the various categories. Since you only need 10 ratings in the "Best New" category, that can really tilt the score in a course's favor.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim - apologies - I obviously spoke WAY too soon.  But at least I seem to have gotten it right.  

TH

[Jim Franklin]

Huck -
We played North/South not even GC New. That's how wacked some of the ratings were.

[Tom Huckaby]

Aha!  So even when I'm right, I'm wrong.  

And yes, one would think North/South would have some uniformity.  New I can see differences on, just based on how one thinks a "copy" course like that should go and whether or not it's one's cup of tea, so to speak.  North/South is just a golf course.  Wildly different evaluations are pretty surprising there.

But then again, maybe not.  People of like mind even often disagree.  Herd-speak and mass-opinions are rarely a good thing either.

In any case your main point is the most important:  with only 10 ratings required, it doesn't take more than 1 or 2 "weird" ones to wildly skew things.  Thus no list of Best New should ever surprise anyone.

And note to Matt if he reads this:  I'm not saying it's RIGHT or GOOD or CORRECT, just explaining how it could go.

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Let me add a bit more info for all those whiners (see Adam Clayman) who want to be spoon fed whenever they start to wail / cry.

Neither Lakota Canyon (Jim Engh) or Greywalls / Marquette GC (Mike DeVries) won in the Upscale category.

John K:

Canyata by Bob Lohmann in Marshall, IL came in second in the "Best New" private. Hats off to your keen awareness.

Dan K:

Nothing like good "fortune" for the winning architect there.

[Jim Franklin]

Matt -

How about Pradera? We both enjoyed that one although I would be somewhat, but not totally as Huck and I have commented, surprised if it won.

[Matt_Ward]

Hey Jim:

Are you ready to hear this --

Pradera did not even SNIFF the top ten.

I played four (4) of the selections and Pradera clearly is beyond each of them. Jim Engh has received plenty of attention in past years -- frankly, his courses of most recent efforts -- were simply ignored. Given what Engh has won in past years I would have seriously thought it would have been a good year for him this time around. Not so.

One other note -- Colorado had five (5) candidates and four of them had some real qualities for being cited ...

Lakota Canyon Ranch

Antler Creek

Highland Meadows

The Club at Pradera

Not one of the above made it.

[Jim Franklin]

Like I said, that does and doesn't surprise me. It doesn't because I have seen Oz and it does because I liked it a lot. What the heck do I know?

[Jim Franklin]

Did Greywalls sniff anything?

[John Kavanaugh]

Canyata by Bob Lohmann in Marshall, IL came in second in the "Best New" private. Hats off to your keen awareness.

I am very happy for the owner and the town of Marshall...a three thousand person town known previously for its adult bookstore.  When any of you decide to come around and play it please don't tell me unless you have given me a ring...I'm not really interested in playing the course again (only because I don't want to wear out my welcome) but would be happy to put up anyone at Ranch Barney with possible golf at another worthy venue.  I'm a little bit excited about the potential for a little more traffic around these parts..

[Jim Franklin]

How close is it to VN?

[Mike Hendren]

Matt,

Did Lighting Bug Golf Course At Solitude win for best affordable, it being free and all?  I assume five-hole courses are eligible.

Mike

[PThomas]

John -- could you pls provide more detail re your thoughts on Canyata, thanks

[Matt_Ward]

Bogey:

No Bug -- sorry.

[SPDB]

Fortune Bay

[Matt_Ward]

SPDB:

B-I-N-G-O !!!!

Jeff Brauer claims back-to-back wins in the upscale category with The Quarry at Giants Ridge last year and The Wilderness at Fortune Bay (see the "fortune" clue provided earlier to Dan K) claiming the top honors this year.

Hats off to Jeff for the stunning achievement given the nature of the field this year -- Lakota Canyon Ranch, Greywalls, etc, etc.

I'm looking forward to going to play both courses next year.

[John Kavanaugh]

How close is it to VN?

Canyata is 40 miles north of me and I am 70 miles north of VN...Canyata is also 90 miles west of Indianapolis.

Paul,

I can't do the course justice with my limited communicative abilities...I hope they are popping champagne as we speak.   It is a time for celebration not critique..

[SPDB]

Matt - Does Jeff know this?

[Matt_Ward]

SPDB:

Yes, he does.

[RJ_Daley]

It is kinda like watching a demolition derby to read all these excited posters taking on yet another ratings and rankings discussion.  Once you can put yourself in a zone of not really putting much value on any of the ratings and rankings process, then the spectator value of this rankings debate stuff rises to gladiator games.

But, I admit that the real value of the rating and rankings game is the discussion, near food fight debate it spawns.  And, to while away an off season, well let the flame throwers light their wicks.

John, Bob Lohmann is no stranger to best new awards.  I think his Merit Club was in a top 3 "best New Private" in about 1993.  I would also like to hear or see some images of Marshall.  

I continue to declare that Lohmann's course formerly "Creeks at Ellingson" now called, Twin Eagles had some very good hole designs - perhaps some of the best Wisconsin has seen in a while.  Problem was, there was a nightmare of developer-owner-archie-associates-construction team disputes.  Of course everyone wanted to take credit for the great golf hole design stuff out there, but ran from the stupidity of some of the infrastructure zoning, site planning mismanagement follies that occured.  real amatuer stuff, IMHO.

PS: I was writing this while the news for Jeff Brauer winning was also being revealed.  Interesting, Jeff and Lohmann were fellow design associates and I believe collaborated on a few things together while at Killian and Nugent in their yout.