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Ran Morrissett

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Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« on: November 28, 2005, 02:58:32 PM »
Alfie Ward was written a club history, reconstructed a 1892 nine hole Willie Fernie golf course with his brother Harry and then acted as its Green Keeper, and made gutta balls in his kitchen (two of which I had the distinct pleasure to lose  :-[ and I'm looking at the un-hit -and thus un-lost - third one on my library shelf).

Another way to put the above, Alfie is a writer, a historian, a course owner who had to worry about expenses versus income, and a Green Keeper. In addition, he has an understanding of the evolution of architecture away from its lay of the land roots, the use of natural hazards and possesses a keen grasp on the ramifications of the advancements of technology from gutta to Haskell to now. In short, the dream Feature Interviewee!

Furthermore, as this is a  web site on golf course architecture, one would assume we had done several Feature Interviews with Scots out of the 60 plus FIs that we've done to date. We have certainly done so with folks in other great golfing countries like Canada and Australia and Mark Rowlinson never lets England slip far from our minds. Yet to date, the only FI we have done with a native Scot is Robert Price's one on the technical aspects of links land in July 2002. The other Feature Interviews centering on Scotland have been on Dornoch by a Canadian and an American and another one on links golf by Australian Paul Daley (March 2001).

Thus, it is especially a pleasure to post Alfie Ward's Interview with his own distinct and Scottish view on the state of the game. Importantly, here is a man who stuck his own money into a golf project and though he lost it, he put up the good fight and tried his very best to give people the opportunity to enjoy the game at its simplest best. How can any of us not be a big fan??

As the writer Jim Dodson (who coincidentally now spends half the year three houses up the street from me in Southern Pines) remarked to Alfie upon playing Arbory Brae five years ago, 'What I think you have here is ..... the soul of golf.' That observation and Alfie's passion for the game shines through in this month's Feature Interview.

Cheers,

Kyle Harris

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2005, 03:03:13 PM »
I read this in its pre-natal form the other day and it's quite a read. Alfie's views are very to the point, but with a bit of whimsy. His MHC on Arbory Brae is a unique perspective as well.

Thanks to all who helped!

George Pazin

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2005, 03:35:20 PM »
Very fun read.

I'm sad that I won't get to play Arbory Brae. Hopefully I'll get to play Alfie's next one.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2005, 03:35:36 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2005, 04:45:49 PM »
George, Kyle,

Thanks for taking the time to read the interview which gave me so much fun also.

I'll be popping back and forth in the next week (to gca.com) - so anybody with questions etc...please feel free to fire away. I'll respond asap.

God bless Amer...........golfclubatlas.com  :D

Alfie

Tom Huckaby

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2005, 05:12:22 PM »
Very fun read indeed.

And apologies for stupid question, my inattention, whatever... but what happened with Arbory Brae?  Why is it referred to in the past tense?

TH

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2005, 05:52:15 PM »
Best regards to you Alfie, fantastic stuff.  Living the dream.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2005, 06:20:51 PM »
Tony,

Thanks, and Yes - we lived our dream !

Tom,

Not stupid at all and no apology required.
Briefly, we lost Arbory Braes to imposed Foot & Mouth restrictions during 2001 (closed Feb - Sept in our first trading year !) ; we created the venture breaking the cardinal rule, viz ; we were grossly under-funded ; we failed to get compensation (F & M) or any form of financial assistance ; and I suppose a deficiency of business know how from me.

And the plus point - the concept did work !

Alfie.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2005, 06:32:41 PM »
Alfie - aha - many thanks.

But oh yes the concept did work for sure.  And I have great faith it will work again... and is working as more and more people get into playing hickories.

GREAT interview in any case.  And I join George in rueing the fates that I missed Arbory Brae, but looking forward to other future Alfie Ward productions.

 ;D

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2005, 07:10:01 PM »
Tom,

"other future AW productions ?"

Maybe - if you need a brickie to build a wee hoose (preferably a clubhoose) on the prairie out there ?

Thanks again,

Alfie


Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2005, 01:50:42 PM »
All day long somethings been bugging me and I couldn't work out what it was!


Then I realised, how the hell does a thread like this dissapear in the blink of an eye!


I produced a load of hot air over natural golf courses and if you want to know about natural golf courses Alfie "wrote the book".  Check it out.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2005, 04:28:29 PM »
Alfie,

I printed both your pieces from GCA and enjoyed them while traveling.  I must go back and read them to better understand the "concept".  In a nutshell what do you define as the "concept"?  Could you only play the course with wood shafts, is that the concept, or was it the true natural form of the course, or the way you approach turf management.  Thanks for a great interview.

By the way, I noticed the interview with the super from Huntingdon Valley was pulled.  I missed all of that.  Does anyone have an explanation.  fortunately I copied it into word for future reference, but interested in the reasons for its removal.

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2005, 08:39:05 PM »
Tony,

You know, I did wonder if I should keep posting on this thread just to keep it in the frame - but I wont, unless a response is requested or there is good enough reason to do so.
BTW, what's this "hot air over natural courses" you talk about ? Would you like to elaborate and perhaps satisfy my (others) ignorance ?
Greatly appreciate your kind words, and I will forward 5p for every time you save this thread from oblivion.  :)



Kelly asked,

"In a nutshell what do you define as the "concept"?  Could you only play the course with wood shafts, is that the concept, or was it the true natural form of the course, or the way you approach turf management."
.....

That's a really good question and one I hope to answer tomorrow night. Right now - I'm done in. Please bear with me and thanks for reading the interview.

Alfie.

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 01:26:31 PM »
 :)
Evening Alfie, Kelly and I are waiting for more.

I just think this is the best stuff I've seen here in the 20 months or so I've been watching.

does anyone know where Dan King is I'd love to see his take on Arbory Brae?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 01:27:15 PM by Tony Muldoon »
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

ForkaB

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 01:30:19 PM »
Tony

We should pray that the sadly lurking Slag Bandoon chooses to appear.  He is Dan King on steroids, and has actually played the course!

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2005, 02:04:42 PM »
That is an excellent interview.  If, and I hope you do, you meet up with Alfie take the time to go with him to look at courses such as Crawford and Arbory Brae - he took me to both, pointed out where the holes were, the greens, tees and so on.  Ever since, every time I drive up the M74, I try to drop off the motorway to have another look at them, and to weep at what so nearly was at Arbory Brae.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2005, 02:17:27 PM »
Alfie,

What, in your opinion, is the best course to have been lost in Scotland?


Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2005, 03:47:41 PM »
Thanks to all who have posted. Refreshed and inspired by your comments, I'll try to catch up.

Mark,
Great to hear from you again. Your question must be the easiest for me to answer -
"What, in your opinion, is the best course to have been lost in Scotland?"
Arbory Braes is top of the list - naturally, for sentimental (mushy) reasons. Though Archerfield springs to mind due to it's recent rediscovery. Crawford (village) was some place a century past and the 18 hole Morris / Rev McKune course was leaps ahead of Arbory in almost every department ! We actually looked hard at Crawford (M74 or no M74 !) but decided it would need far more cash than we had to restore it !
I'd like to hear others suggestions on this sad topic - I think I'm going to cry ! :'( ;D


Alfie

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 03:53:52 PM »
Tony, Rich,

It was actually Slag (Norbert) who introduced me to gca.com ! Great for me - maybe not so good for the rest of you  ;)
Yes. Where are you Norby ?

Alfie

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 06:30:26 PM »
Kelly, Tony et al,

"In a nutshell what do you define as the "concept"?"

My definition of the hickory concept relates to what we actually provided for our customers at Arbory. Lot's of people around the globe play with hickories in some way or fashion and that's great IMO. Whether they use gutta balls or Titliest  doesn't really matter, if it works for them, fine ?
The things you mention were the basic concept for the business (trying to sell an experience of playing 19th century golf "as it was" and with many of it's trappings) ! The clubs (replica hickory shafts) ; the balls (repro gutta's & gutties) ; and the natural lie of the land (the turf) ! Even the clothing was a factor for some who really entered into the spirit of the occasion. Some golfers actually turned up at Arbory resplendant in their hired Victorian / Edwardian costume.  
Authenticity was paramount to our way of thinking right from the start, but we still had to consider some compromises for the modern golfer in certain areas. Purism can be taken too far, and in our circumstance, was totally impractical (eg, feather balls and long nosed clubs or greens fashioned from the existing turf) ! Of course, being honest Joe's, the few phoney elements were fully explained to everyone ! The first greens at Arbory would have been nothing like the grand sports turf we put down and were, (almost certainly) much smaller than our "new" greens averaging a paltry 90 square yards or thereabouts. Imagine playing to any green that size today ? Modern Joe would go aff his nut and walk off the course in a tantrum  ;)
So in some ways we did create our own concept, but firmly designed with authenticity in mind.
We had a "few" critics in regard to us using "replica" clubs. Hardly worth talking about and these critics were alleged hickory enthusiasts ? >:(
The balls were also replica's - but REAL gutta's, just made (authentically) 100 years out of date (like the clubs). :)
But the course - well it was something else. We had the original layout sketch ; it was only 25 acres in area making our dreams feasible re - the costs ; the ground was undulating and interesting from a golf perspective ; the ground was also completely non-arable and had never seen the sharp edge of a plough, so was virtually untouched in a century ; and most important of all, we had a sypathetic farmer who allowed us to commandeer his ground with a free hand to do as we wished.
Then we had to do some soul searching as to just how authentic we made this course for "business" purposes ? For example, there were grassy knolls all over the course which Harry couldn't come to terms with, so eventually after great debate, I conceded to allow him to get Duncan (the farmer) to try rolling out these lumps on the ground with his heavy roller. Thankfully, it didn't work, and they remained the same hazard they were 100 years past. (phew)
We did create two small ponds which again, I was totally against at the time - but they grew on me as time went by. I remember seeing gorgeous blue luminescant dragon flies hovering over the surface one day and thought - "ah well, they wouldn't have been there if we hadn't dammed up the ditch ?"
Sorry, I'm wandering again.
We didn't encourage modern clubs, but some people did want to use them. Again, how far do you take purism, especially when you desperately need to get some income ? I did welcome golfers who were booked for hickory play, to bring their own clubs with them (or a few including their driver) so that they could immediately compare the differences in respect of distance and difficulty. I was happy with that !
Then there was the aspect of what do we preach in relation to golf history ? Tom Morris, Willie Park, Allan Robertson, The Old Course, Prestwick etc...? No. We had a small gallery of old photo's (copies) in our small pavilion depicting the defunct local courses of yesteryear and that's what I tried to impress on visitors. The importance of golf and it's ordinary people had, for me, a story that needed to be told and emphasised - if the "discerning" ear was willing ?

Better wind up, my supper's getting cold.

Then there was the wild stoat's, the fox who came down from the hill, the wild viola's that littered the course, the wonderful people themselves, the.............

Hope this answers your question, Kelly. Whatever it was ? :D

Alfie



Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2005, 02:37:57 PM »
The first greens at Arbory would have been nothing like the grand sports turf we put down and were, (almost certainly) much smaller than our "new" greens averaging a paltry 90 square yards or thereabouts. Imagine playing to any green that size today ? Modern Joe would go aff his nut and walk off the course in a tantrum  ;)
So in some ways we did create our own concept, but firmly designed with authenticity in mind.:)

I think that greens may be the biggest change of all in golf, our modern ability to make them so playable. They must have been very 'unfair' in them olden days.  Reading Mackenzie I'm struck by how he seems to have a feeling of relief when someone holes out so they both can get on to the next hole.

Again I think your experience can offer us all a great lesson about 'restoration' vs. updating.

How popular was the course Alfie?  Did it have a natural local clientele and did visitors return again and again, or was it seen as a special treat?  Did you have members? You seem very optimistic about the concept considering you were open only for a few months?  I'm also not sure the American readership here understands exactly what the foot and mouth crisis was all about.  It seems a bitter irony that you were stopped from having people play the course because the government were trying to protect the countryside!

Got to go to work!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 02:39:30 PM by Tony Muldoon »
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2005, 04:25:10 PM »
Tony,

Fairness appears to have crept into golf as part of it's evolution. Just like all the political correctness crap we now have to endure. Mankind's natural evolution of stepping over lines ?

Abington is a very small rural village, so it was difficult to recruit a membership base. I had a few members, who usually played with their own modern clubs. I must mention one person in particular - Dr Neil Hunter. Neil called in to speak with us, I think, before we officially opened. He joined as a member and went off and bought his own bag of six or seven hickories at an auction. We became great friends and he even laboratory analised the gutta I was using to make the balls and wrote a paper on his work. More interesting, from my point of view at least, Neil proceded to research the feather ball and is now semi-proficient at making them ! He had never played golf in his life, before coming up to Arbory ! For many, hickory golf was a one off experience but a few did come back for more punishment. Guys would often bring their partners and I always offered them a set of clubs to play along, although the ladies nearly always declined ! They were content just to walk the course with hubby, or Romeo in some cases ? ;)
Being optimistic about the experience / concept comes from the feedback of, say, 95% of all the people who played over Arbory. Even though we had failings in certain aspects of quality, all those people couldn't have been liars, could they ?
The biggest mistake we made was in our timing. Maybe the sun will shine for us next time round ? And the true irony is, that I know for sure that they wont be closing anybody down due to Foot & Mouth disease in the UK. Because they (govt) admitted that it wasn't even necessary in the first place ? Shit happens !

Thanks for your input, Tony.

BTW, my biggest market for customers was....the English ! :D

Alfie.

Norbert P

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Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2005, 10:30:37 PM »
Thanks to Tony Muldoon for linking this in another thread as I didn't know that Alfie was presented in the spotlight of GCA. There is no modern man more deserving of praise than the grass roots efforts and pursuits of golf than Alfie Ward. Reading that complete thread was a dimpling pleasure.

  Happy health to you Alfie,  Slainte'  
BTW my Arbory gutty is safe and secure.

Now, Richard, ... on steroids!? Are you saying I've been festooned with elfin testicles?! Or capable of spastic rages?! Apoplectic rants?! I'll have you know that my body (and mind) is a temple of malted refreshments, steaks, lasagna and the continuous intake of "Purity Of Essence" of tonic water, . . . and gin -- not one in vain pursuits of WWF ideals.
   Or did you mean that I'm an optimistic and idealistic student of sensei King?  

Either way, good birdie hunting to you as well, my astoot friend.  
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

ForkaB

Re:Feature Interview with Alfie Ward is posted
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2005, 04:06:53 AM »
All of the above, Norb, plus maybe having a shot at being the next governator of California, or even Oregon....