31 flavors of Ran (The Gourmet Choice)

« **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:41:08 PM »

great find NAF!

three quick comments:

1. all the Pebble haters might come out fo the woodwork again;
2. I gotta go play High Pointe again;
3. where the hell is CHung Shan Hot Springs???

« **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:48:45 PM »

Neat list... personally, I didn't think Ran was that smart

Perhaps the most surprising comment for me is re: High Pointe. "More original holes than Pacific Dunes." Interesting.

I like High Pointe a lot; haven't been to Pacific Dunes yet.

« **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:49:11 PM »

Neat list, NAF. I have not played many of the courses listed, but I like the idea of a smorgasboard of favorite architects and their "best" (please use that term loosely) efforts on the ground.

Might be a great "primer" for the lover of golf architecture.

« **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2005, 10:42:00 PM »

"Neat list... personally, I didn't think Ran was that smart

Perhaps the most surprising comment for me is re: High Pointe. "More original holes than Pacific Dunes." Interesting."

Jeff:

Surprising indeed. Don't you think that pretty much proves what you initially thought was right, even despite the fact you've never seen Pacific Dunes?

I've had both the pleasure and the burden 2-3 times of being out there when Ran's trying to analyze and crtiique a golf course. It's a lot of fun to be out there with him but in every case 3-4 times a course he comes up with stuff that makes your eyes roll.

The greatest eye-rolling instance was this one on the 14th hole will taking photos of Sand Hills:

"Do you think I should ask Bill Coore if he's aware that since he did not meld together a stretch of fairway between #14 and #15 he completely blew what could've been a great golf course?"

This man is not only an excellent golf course and architectural reviewer, he's also an excellent put-on artist.

« **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2005, 06:06:49 AM »

Since the 31 flavors concept is one course/architect, can we assume that our most beloved one is assigning the Old Course to Old Tom Morris?

« **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2005, 10:48:19 AM »

I remember that thread and that Ran didn't include Abercomby. My bet is that he would now.

« **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2005, 10:56:39 AM »

OK ,Tom

I'll humour you and give you the Old Course as Low(!?)'s finest work. It must be Prestwick, then that Ran gives to OTM.

« **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2005, 09:48:27 PM »

Very interesting and well thought out choices.

I would be interested to know if he would now select a different Coore and Crenshaw course - Sand Hills or Friars Head - now that there are many new choices opened. Ran does have a great affinity for the Plantation COurse much as he does for Yale and I know he won't bump Yale off his list.

I wonder too if a different Tom Doak course would be chosen today and if it would be Pac Dunes or one of the newer international choices.

Now that he has seen more Tillinghast - would Somerset Hills still make the grade?

I like the choice for Pete Dye - The Ocean Course rules.

Finally- I know I must at some time take a trip down under. If Royal Melborne gets picked ahead of Cypress Point that's enough for me to buy a plane ticket!

« **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2005, 10:32:20 AM »

Geoff: another"vote" for Royal Melbourne is the fact that in his Confidential Tom D. said it might be the BEST COURSE IN THE WORLD!!!

« **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2005, 06:40:16 PM »

Who is this guy Ran that you are talking about

Is he the guy who used to post on here a few years ago and we'd have "golf architecture" conversations with?

« **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2005, 07:04:26 PM »

Did he "forget" Merion?

If not, why isn't it on there?

« **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2005, 07:59:38 PM »

I too must see High Pointe for Pacific Dunes is all world to me. I have been to Westward Ho on a wonderful day and played alone. It was wonderful but not to be seen before or certainly in preference to North Berwick or Prestwick in this mans opinion.

« **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2005, 10:15:02 PM »

You guys are always welcome to come up and see High Pointe [though I cannot vouch for its conditioning: they just fired the superintendent who had given it some respectability]. And, of course, we have an inch of snow on the ground today, so you might want to wait a while.

However, putting High Pointe first on my career list shows just how far behind the times Ran has fallen. I suspect that he would pick Barnbougle today if he'd seen it, just to try and avoid Pacific Dunes as the obvious choice. Which is sort of what his 31 flavors are about ... how to pick a lot of different ones than I did without looking completely silly.

« **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2005, 10:18:02 PM »

Tom, if asked to choose one of your courses for the "gourmet list", which one would it be?

« **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2005, 10:30:41 PM »

Chris:

I honestly don't know. Remember, I have played only two rounds at Barnbougle, three at Sebonack, five at Cape Kidnappers, one at St. Andrews Beach, one at Ballyneal, and none at Stone Eagle yet. I've had lots more chance to enjoy Pacific Dunes and High Pointe and Lost Dunes, so they are the sentimental favorites right now.

The one thing that Ran might be right about is that although I don't think High Pointe is my best work, it might be the course that's most "mine." All the rest are partly a testament to the influence of my associates, from Tom Mead at Lost Dunes to Jim Urbina at Pacific to Bruce Hepner and the whole crew who lived in New Zealand, and now to Jack Nicklaus at Sebonack. I wasn't nearly as practiced at construction at High Pointe, but the design is 100% stream-of-consciousness me, for whatever that's worth.

« **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2005, 03:23:09 PM »

Noel,

I absolutely love your comment about Rustic Canyon. I think that's a great compliment to a golf course.

« **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2005, 03:56:53 PM »

Noel -

No Merion for you either?

« **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:01:19 PM »

I've walked parts of Merion with Wayne Morrison but not played it.. Is it a Wilson or a Flynn? Parts of both...

I've never played a Thomas either.. nor have I been to Fownes' Oakmont..

Otherwise, I've been fortunate to be well traveled..

« **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:07:18 PM »

Noel

Mortfontaine must be out of this world to take it over Ballybunion.

I also notice that Eddie Hackett doesn't get a mention from any 31 flavours list.

Ciao

Sean

« **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:07:23 PM »

You must get to both and quickly (well at least when it gets warmer

). I say Wilson for Merion.

« **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:08:32 PM »

Sorry

I see Ran went for Waterville, tis a pity.

Ciao

Sean

« **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:32:00 PM »

Quote from: NAF on November 22, 2005, 04:14:12 PM

I agree with many that walking a course first shows off the architecture best.

Especially if you hack it around like you do on our trips

« **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2005, 04:44:41 PM »

Good call about Plainfield,
its in the top three of the 55 DJR courses Ive seen though I might slightly prefer Longmeadow and Brookside over PCC.

« **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2005, 08:43:08 AM »

There's hacking and there's HACKING, man!

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