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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #125 on: November 23, 2005, 12:29:05 PM »
I put the over / under at $25,000.  This is crump-change ;)


Keep the updates coming gents.  Fascinating stuff on a slow work-day.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Craig_Rokke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #126 on: November 23, 2005, 12:47:17 PM »
I put the over / under at $25,000.  This is crump-change ;)


Keep the updates coming gents.  Fascinating stuff on a slow work-day.

Mike

I think a shovel used by Crump in the construction of Pine Valley could fetch $1000. My over-under is $30k, and I think there is an outside chance that it could go for much, much more than that.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 04:52:09 PM by Craig_Rokke »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #127 on: November 23, 2005, 01:18:17 PM »
niblickgolfdesign just bid up to $3,500.

is it these guys?:

http://www.niblickgolfdesign.com/home/


Phillips, You Nutter!!!
Hope you get it!

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #128 on: November 23, 2005, 01:53:39 PM »
This is better than Antiques Roadshow!

(For our overseas friends - a PBS TV series dealing with appraising antique items in private hands).

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2005, 02:08:22 PM »
If you really want the map and have the $$$ why not just bid $50k right now? You'll only have to pay a couple of dollars more than the next highest bid and you wont have to worry about the last minute snipe situation.

-Ted
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 02:08:49 PM by Ted Kramer »

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2005, 02:11:58 PM »
Ted, the reason is...because you don't want people to know you're there.  If you do that, you immediately become top bid and when somebody tops you, you top them and people glean information about your bid from that.

You think someone is going to top $50k?

-Ted

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2005, 02:14:55 PM »
 hond 1492 is high bidder. 1492=Columbus -Ohio State?-hond=hondo. It must be John Havlicheck.Man , this is easy ;D
AKA Mayday

TEPaul

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #132 on: November 23, 2005, 05:08:10 PM »
"Dan,
When you place a bid on an item, you place it for just above the already highest bid, but you can also place a "maximum" bid as well.  So if someone comes along and places a higher bid than yours, ebay will continue to post your bid up to the maximum level that you selected.  After that, you'll need to place a new bid if you wish.  That is the reason you see one person with several bids in a row."

Jamie:

Does that mean if I bid $100,000 right now my name will be listed like 10,000 times in a row. How cool! I think I'll bid $100,000 for this item but of course I sure do hope some idiot is dumb enough to top me.  ;)

To be honest, I'm getting a bit concerned for PV in this. If they were a collector/seller I could see it but they seem to be in a pretty odd position on this---like getting ripped off over what they really want it for, like keeping it forever. What if they didn't buy it and somebody does pay $25,000 for it? Do you realize the value of their entire archives will totally skyrocket because for perhaps the first time in their history there'll be a bona fide comp price ( from other then themselves) to point to for anything in their archives. If I were them I don't know what the hell I'd do about this item. I told them I know I'm unique in looking at this thing because to me it's value was research value and the reserach value of this item is about zero.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 05:10:18 PM by TEPaul »

peter_p

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #133 on: November 23, 2005, 06:00:41 PM »
Brian is back on top at $4300. Currently, this item isn't the highest bidding auction going - $7000+ for a Green Jacket at http://mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=54568&CurrentRow=21

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #134 on: November 23, 2005, 08:54:00 PM »
TEP/Paul/TomMac -

If I understand correctly, this drawing does not change anything in the great attribution debate about PVGC?

Bob

Yes Bob it likely doesn't change much, but I'd love to take a look at it.  

If there wasn't a routing plan already in the clubhouse (that we have already studied) then it would change a lot.

One thing this latest plan might add is that the pond/lake (by 15 and 16) is apparently detailed (according to the seller).  They aren't on the plan in the clubhouse and I don't think they are in the booklet.  It might shed light on the different iterations of the 14th.  Which went through a lot...at least 4.

Wayne M

Thanks I would like to see the scans of your copy of the handwriting.



I think this item will either get scalped at the death or it will be a null auction
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 08:58:55 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #135 on: November 23, 2005, 09:28:00 PM »
The plans are a worthless piece of ancient history, unreliable, misleading, and of no historic value or interest.

There, that should hold the price down for a brief while.

TEPaul

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #136 on: November 23, 2005, 09:46:34 PM »
"One thing this latest plan might add is that the pond/lake (by 15 and 16) is apparently detailed (according to the seller).  They aren't on the plan in the clubhouse and I don't think they are in the booklet.  It might shed light on the different iterations of the 14th.  Which went through a lot...at least 4."

Paul:

The pond/lake is on the topo map in the clubhouse (labeled a couple of times as a "water"). It is on Travis's drawings (1915). It's not in the Colt booklet or this auction item for the simple reason in 1913 it didn't exist!  ;)

If this seller claims this item (July 1913) shows a pond I believe he's saying that for the simple reason on this item in basically the place where the pond is there's a rather large stain (that may look to him like a pond!).  ;)

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #137 on: November 23, 2005, 11:15:56 PM »
     This seller now knows that the item he has could be worth tens of thousands of dollars if it is real.  He claims to have shown it to someone who can verify it as authentic but does not give a name.  He has all these bidders and still spells flea market "flee" and can't copy the name Colt. It really seems to be that he is setting himself up as having made no misrepresentations in case it isn't real. On the other hand, if you look at his Ebay history he appears to have some history of regularly selling items on Ebay so how unsophisticated is he?  

     It's like a game of dice, sometimes you roll a seven and sometimes it comes up craps. But it's your choice whether you get in the game.  

TEPaul

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #138 on: November 24, 2005, 06:26:34 AM »
Good point Jerry. I don't know eBay but is it possible to put the $50,000 payment in escrow until this item can be put under the "black light" to establish its bona fides?  ;)

WayneM to archival expert:

"What is this odd number on the top right of this map?"

Archival expert to WayneM:

"Well, I'll be go to hell, that's Horace Hutchinson's Country Life Magazine email address. That should make this item worth about $329 grand as that could establish this item as the first and best direct connection of the primary influence of the Arts and Crafts Movement on the Golden Age of golf couse architecture!"
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 06:33:08 AM by TEPaul »

T_MacWood

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #139 on: November 24, 2005, 11:35:11 AM »
TE
No doubt Hutchinson was looking over Crump and Colt's shoulder, if not literally, certainly figuratively. Are there any cigarette burns or Brandy stains on the plan?   ;)

The Crump family was closely tied to the architectural scene in Philadelphia, one of the centers of the American A&C Movement. The rustic nature of the buildings at PV reflect a certain appreciation. Of course you knew all that...seeing your mother had a subscription to Country Life (thirty years after the movement ended).  :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 11:37:58 AM by Tom MacWood »

TEPaul

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #140 on: November 24, 2005, 11:47:42 AM »
"The Crump family was closely tied to the architectural scene in Philadelphia, one of the centers of the American A&C Movement. The rustic nature of the buildings at PV reflect a certain appreciation. Of course you knew all that...seeing your mother had a subscription to Country Life (thirty years after the movement ended)."  :)

Gee, Tom, I'm so sorry I never told her that, I'm sure she would've been so disappointed---about what I can't imagine, but anyway...    ;)  

ForkaB

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #141 on: November 24, 2005, 11:54:02 AM »
BTW, Pine Valley GC has joined the frenzy on eBay, bidding up to $6,900.  Niblick still leads, however at 7Gs.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #142 on: November 24, 2005, 11:58:18 AM »
This is chump change for someone like Jamie Ortiz-Patinos who is a Pine Valley member and probably the worlds best known collector of golf items.   I look for him to come in at the end and place a bid far exceeding anything else.



A rare golf ball has been bought by the owner of one of Europe's top courses for £24,000.
Jamie Ortiz-Patiños, owner of Valderrama in Spain, was the highest bidder for the 200-year-old ball.

The ball was made by Wil Robertson, father of famous golfer Allan Robertson, in 1790.

Made of leather and feathers, it is inscribed with the words: "Presented to Rev. H.M. Lamont by J.W. Inglis C.b, an old student in St. Andrews, 18**."



It had been expected to fetch about £20,000 in the auction at Lyon and Turnbull's sporting sale in Edinburgh.

On the side of the ball it says: "This ball was made by Wil. Robertson, 1790, Father of Allan the famous golfer one of the early members of St Andrews Golf Club."

Titus Kendal, Mr Ortiz-Patiños' London-based dealer, said: "My client wanted the golf ball for his collection because of its age and unusual history, along with its links with golfer Allan Robertson."

David Hall, golf specialist at Lyon and Turnbull, said there are very few examples of 18th century golf balls in existence.

The ball's American vendor Frank Hardison bought the ball from one of the famous golfing families of St Andrews, the Kerr's, in the early 1960s.


Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #143 on: November 24, 2005, 12:55:00 PM »
Guys, the PineValleygc bid is bullsh*t.  

You beat me to it Shivas.  No previous trading record and just registered to bid for this? There's one born every minute.

This is turning into a regular goldrush, I never thought I'd live to see the day that our good friend Mr Goodale swallowed one that big! ;)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #144 on: November 24, 2005, 12:59:02 PM »
If Jamie Ortiz-Patiños is a member of Pine Valley... I predict a mystery buyer ends up with this at a price in excess of $35000.

The map then becomes the property of Pine Valley who kindly lend it to Valderama whilst a certain individual is still alive.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #145 on: November 24, 2005, 01:03:54 PM »
If this is generating attention around the world and not just in our living room...it's a cyincal thought but; if my name was to lead the bidding now it would be really good publicity, safe in the knowledge that about 24 hours from now the real bids will start to arrive and it didn't cost me a penny.  Kudos to anyone who thought to do that.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 01:04:49 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

A_Clay_Man

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #146 on: November 24, 2005, 02:04:42 PM »
The seller now cites a historian as a source for authenticity.

  I assume he is talking about someone from this website.

Wayne, Tom, Did you guys meet with this guy?

TEPaul

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #147 on: November 24, 2005, 02:09:53 PM »
Yep, Wayne's the "historian" that met the guy. But don't worry although Wayne knows a lot about this stuff we got a bona fide golf artifact historian to check this out. As I said on here earlier he wasn't too sure what to make of Horace Hutchinson's Country Life Magazine email address on the top right but other than that this thing is the real deal.

TonyM:

Rich The Magnificent got you this time Pal.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 02:26:20 PM by TEPaul »

wsmorrison

Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #148 on: November 24, 2005, 02:18:24 PM »
"Guys, the PineValleygc bid is bullsh*t.  That's sombody using that name to make other bidders feel bad about bidding against them.  I'll guarantee that's not Pine Valley itself.  For what it's worth..."

"You beat me to it Shivas.  No previous trading record and just registered to bid for this? There's one born every minute."



Well guys, how about a bet in the amount of the concluding price?  ;)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 02:35:00 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Original Pine Valley Blueprint for sale on Ebay
« Reply #149 on: November 24, 2005, 02:53:27 PM »


TonyM:

Rich The Magnificent got you this time Pal.  ;)

 ;)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2005, 03:26:50 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

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