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Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2005, 02:26:46 PM »
I'd love to see someone point out a GCA situation where this golden ratio was used. . .

-Ted

Jim Nugent

Re:1.61803
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2005, 02:30:18 PM »

Jim, my recollection of this branch of set theory is that the proof does not require you to count to infinity, which, of course, no one can do.

George, the proofs I'm talking about only work on infinite sets.  That's what I meant by having to count to infinity.    

You're right, Georg Cantor invented set theory, back around the late 1800's.  It's real interesting -- different magnitudes of infinity, lots of results that go against intuition.  My problem is that I don't think mathematics can really use infinity in this way.  That opinion puts me in a small minority.  Though I have to admit I was pleased to learn there is a pretty obscure branch of mathematics that holds that view.


Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2005, 02:30:53 PM »
I threw together a slapdash suspension bridge made of string, glue and popsicle sticks the night before the science fair. It collapses on the way to school and I finished last.

An English major was born that day.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2005, 02:54:05 PM »
I threw together a slapdash suspension bridge made of string, glue and popsicle sticks the night before the science fair. It collapses on the way to school and I finished last.

An English major was born that day.

Was it that same day when your Dad decided not to pass on the family business?  ;D (smiley for others' benefit, not yours!)
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2005, 02:55:50 PM »
Well, doesn't this bring back college memories!


I have two - first, in LA school our first project was to team up and build a unique kite, with simple rules - it couldn't be store bought, it couldn't have a tail, and it had to fly.  My partner and I designed one the day before (naturally, as we were still checking out the campus bar scene) in his apartment.  Because it was raining, we tested it from his porch and it flew.  Come the real test, the thing dove like crazy and wouldn't stay up.  On the way home, we noticed that the A/C unit for his building was just above his door, and that exhaust was what made it fly.

The point of that excersise, BTW, was that even in landscape architecture your design shouldn't ever look like something else (no store bought), sometimes would have uniqure requirements that made no sense (no tail) and above all, had to be enineered to work, regardless of aesthetics.  Please remember that valuble lesson as I do, when critiquing golf courses.

The other is from intramural football at Illinois.  I quarterbacked the first dorm team ever to beat a frat team in IM football, at least according to the daily Illini at the time.  So they came to cover our next game, which was against the math geeks. Those guys beat us with some incredibly complex plays, but mostly because they had a unique set of numbers on the jerseys that I couldn't stop laughing at, and which it took us too long to assign coverage.  By the time the defensive captain called out, "Jeff, you got number 1.61803,"  he was gone!  They also had 3.1416, (another had "pi") Avagadro's Number (6.23 -23) Infinity, and a number that was said to represent the gross national product of a third world country.  (And here, I thought it represented a Fazio budget, until I realized - not big enough!)

Shivas, with still two high schoolers left, I can;t count the number of projects where I, uh, helped my kids, only to find that some parents really go all out!

Too goofy to even post, if it weren't Friday afternoon!


Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2005, 03:12:58 PM »
Since it's Friday afternoon, and since at least some of us are being goofy, and since Mathematics is at least a cousin of Physics...

I highly recommend that you check out "Electron Band Structure In Germanium, My Ass," at  http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2005, 03:18:17 PM »
Martin,

Ask and 'ye shall receive... http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Le_Mandelbrot_Set/

Want a picture as well?...http://beehive.thisishull.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=7921&PageID=42465

Ah but Evan,
this is clearly NOT THE Mandelbrot Set but merely a pale francoisian imitation. LE Mandelbrot Set indeed!
Pretty funky music however, in a strictly non-threatening Jazz groove, of course.

Now, as for the funky looking redhead in 'Spacemaid'. I'm sure I could easily set up a drivin' 5/4 back-beat for her...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2005, 03:26:24 PM »
Since Chemistry is at least a distant cousin of Physics, and since I happen to be a PhD Chemist, let me tell you that I've generated any number of graphs I should've titled: Check this s&%t out. I completely sympathize with Messrs Kovar/Hall. Hilarious! ;D

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2005, 03:29:13 PM »
If we assume that we can do ANYTHING with fractals and use music produced by fractal equations as an origin point, then I assume we could also design golf courses using fractal principles.

Unfortunately, our courses would turn out to be the visual and strategic and landscape equivalent of this:

SOUND WARNING: If you're loafing around in GCA INSTEAD of working, then the BOSS will hear this, so TURN YOUR SOUND DOWN/OFF NOW!!!

http://www.fractal-vibes.com/fvc/links.html

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2005, 03:29:40 PM »
Jeff -- I think we've hit on one of the best aspects of golf course architecture: A course can't be conceived, designed and built the night before it opens.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Kyle Harris

Re:1.61803
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2005, 04:06:46 PM »
Apart from all the mental masturbation that's been happening.

Try to draw up a hole where the optimum position into a green's distances over the total length of the hole is 1.61803, or there abouts.

So, playing from the middle tee, the optimum position into the green is 220 yards off the tee (no further, no less - so the green has to be designed for this place) you can design the hole no longer than 360 yards.

Then design a back tee and forward tee, while maintaining that ratio.

You come up with some neat stuff working within those confines and a lot of neat angles to play with.

THuckaby2

Re:1.61803
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2005, 04:12:00 PM »
Whoa... insert twilight zone music... I think Kyle just unwittingly, or wittingly, described #14 at Cypress Point.

I think.

Maybe.

Anyone?

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2005, 04:16:08 PM »
Whoa... insert twilight zone music... I think Kyle just unwittingly, or wittingly, described #14 at Cypress Point.

I think.

Maybe.

Anyone?


Be careful, boys. If you think about it too much, someone may accuse you of mental masturbation!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

THuckaby2

Re:1.61803
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2005, 04:17:22 PM »
Better than the physical, at least here at work.


Kyle Harris

Re:1.61803
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2005, 05:02:37 PM »
Dan,

With apologies if I ruffled any feathers... there's certainly nothing wrong with masturbation, mental or otherwise.  ;D

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2005, 05:06:00 PM »
....I think that the effect of measuring things that seem pleasing and proportional and noting the mathematical relationships involved is all good and valid but is probably an unreliable approach when trying to use these same relationships as a template from the start.....math can explain but not create things natural....[or at least not very well].

Which will be our best defense in any future war with computers.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 05:12:20 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2005, 05:17:10 PM »
....but then again what are the naturally occuring odds a dirt geek with no typing or computer skills could of just reached 900 posts...amazing ::)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 05:26:13 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Kyle Harris

Re:1.61803
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2005, 05:21:48 PM »
Okay, I am going to fire up the ole scanner and post some of these. They aren't bad.

Naturally, fitting them to a landform is a completely different beast, but the concept of thinking about three different landing areas for three different tees is interesting.

Eliminate all the math, and what's left over is some very interesting holes.

Especially interesting for long par 3s as well. And with par 5s, the possibilities are practically endless.

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2005, 10:51:10 AM »
Okay, I am going to fire up the ole scanner and post some of these. They aren't bad.

Naturally, fitting them to a landform is a completely different beast, but the concept of thinking about three different landing areas for three different tees is interesting.

Eliminate all the math, and what's left over is some very interesting holes.

Especially interesting for long par 3s as well. And with par 5s, the possibilities are practically endless.

Looking forward to seeing what you've come up with . . .

-Ted

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2005, 08:44:50 PM »
I hate that SOB Fibbonocci.  Why?

Some chick won my 7th grade science fair with this drivel.  All she did was create a poster that explains this and she won.  She didn't do squat.  Her dad did it all, obviously.  And what this has to do with science remains beyond me.  

Me?  I created a cool jet engine in 20 minutes out of a fan stuck inside a tube of plastic (actually it was a cut-up plastic carpet runner), did a great job of BSing my way through the presentation as usual --  and wound up in fricking 2nd, losing to a fricking poster full of numbers.   >:(



Shivas

what came third (I assume there was a third)? :D

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Yancey_Beamer

Re:1.61803
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2005, 10:04:10 PM »
I recently read Math and the Mona Lisa which explains
Fibonacci Numbers,Golden Rectangles,Golden Triangles,and the birth of science against the setting of the Renaissance. I recommend this book highly.However if you suffer from the putting yips the mass of information could make the condition permanent.Beware,Tom Paul.

Brandon OMahoney

Re:1.61803
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2005, 08:49:02 PM »
I have a rough draft that I'm willing to share with anyone who's interested in reading it.  I have some people editing the final print with better pictures.  The pictures I use, don't explain my points very well.  Let me know

brandonomahoney@hotmail.com

http://brandonomahoney.blogspot.com

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1.61803
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2005, 10:46:09 AM »
First time I ever heard about the "Golden Ratio" was in relation to human beauty - evidently the dimensions on (some's) face are lucky enough to enjoy this relationship -- read: the aforementioned Zeta-Jones.  

http://goldennumber.net/beauty.htm

William King

Re:1.61803
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2005, 06:13:19 PM »
Question:

Why is there a thread devoted to my putts/hole stat? :P

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