Public vs. Private.... Down the Road

[Steve_Roths]

I recently was looking at what Coore and Crenshaw and Doak had listed on their website for future courses on the drawing board.  And, I got to wander how many will be public courses that we will all get to play versus the exclusive private courses that take networking to get a round in.  

Right now it only lists two courses that Doak has in the works on in Montana and one in Cabo.  I assume the Montana one will be private and the Cabo one will be public.

You then look at what Coore and Crenshaw have on the drawing board and it looks like only one public course out of their next 5 or so.  

Obviously there are far more architects out there working besides these two, but there courses seem to be the most desirable to play among this crowd.  I guess the point I am getting at right or wrong is that most of the great stuff created in this time period will be private.  Similar to the Golden Age courses.  

Is this due to simple economics of owners wanting to recoup their money faster?  

[Steve_Roths]

As I was grabbing a drink this thought crossed my mind.  If you wanted to play a Seth Raynor course in the US could you?  I have played Shoreacres but that was due to an invite.  I have not played Fisher's Island, though I would love to.  

How about Alister MacKenzie?  You can tee it up on Pasatiempo here in the states, but other than that you need to know a member at all the other ones.

How about Tillanghast?  You could play Bethpage.  But no Baltusral, SFGC, Winged Foot, etc. etc.

CB Macdonald?  It took me a long time to get on National, but I think most aren't as lucky.  

I guess the point I am making is that all of these great courses are completely out of reach of the average golfer.  I am surprised someone at some point (other than Mike Keiser) hasn't decided to build great courses and open the doors.  

I imagine if National or Fisher's or Cypress were public courses today that they would not be able to keep up with the demand.  

I wonder if Bandon's success is tied into the fact that it is so remote that it takes effort to get there thus the player gets the same feeling of accomplishments as playing a super private course.  Kind of like the badge of honor with the course logoed shirt from a Shinnecock or Deepdale.  

[Cliff Hamm]

It has always seemed to meet that one of the things that seperates American golf from the British Isles has been our emphasis on private golf.  Golf in the British Isles has always been much more of a common man sport without the elitist image that it has in America.  Certainly one of the reasons is access.

I don't believe that this era has a greater emphasis on private golf.  Perhaps the opposite with the proliferation of country clubs for a day.  I also believe that more quality daily fee courses are being built now than ever, but the greens fees are often excessive.

At the same time this is also an era that status and exclusivity is bought.  Triple figure initiation fees  are incresingly common  not to mention 500k.   I don't begrudge private golf -  just wish access was a bit easier.  I wish that private clubs allowed some limited public play - such as in the 'off season' and in the afternoon. Of course this is their right and what the triple digit initiation fees buy.  It is irksome though when public courses have 6  hour rounds and there is hardly if anyone on the private course in the afternoon.  No arguement again this is their right and if one wants to they have the option of joining a private club if they have the means.  Just wish things were a bit different. I might add that Baltusrol used to have a "Mayor's Day", and may still, when residents of the town could play for a reasonable fee.

I also wish that architect's did more public courses.  It is certainly admirable what Pete Dye did at Wintonbury Hills and I also believe at Purdue.   While fees may be less to design a public course and the budget lower it would be nice to see architects do such as a portion of their design work. This is especially true for those whom have experienced high success and do not need to charge excessively on every design.Perhaps Donald Ross in New England is the model architect for this.  While his public designs are certainly not near his private ones they at least allow the public to experience his philosophy.

[Tom_Doak]

Steve:

I've got a lot more than two projects on the drawing board, but unfortunately, nearly all of them are private.

Your initial reaction to why is probably the main reason.  After 9/11, the people who had been developing those high-end daily fee courses realized they were at the mercy of the economy over the long term; anyone who had built a private course and sold it out before 9/11 already had their money in the bank.

A lot of our clients aren't really looking to serve one market or the other ... they want to build a golf course [whether as a personal goal or to help market real estate], and they will just look for whatever is the most reasonable business model to operate it.  Before 2001, people were convinced that the public sector avoided all the hassles about disrimination in membership sales, but after 2001, most of them tend to go private for the money.  If Beechtree was being contemplated today, our owner would have made it a private course.

Price has something to do with it as well; both Coore and Crenshaw and Renaissance Golf charge higher fees than we used to, and I'm sure there are some public course developers who won't call us now because they are sure we are priced out of their league.  That may be true, but we can also find ways to make the numbers work if we want to [as at Barnbougle Dunes], and I can tell you that everyone in my company is concerned about this trend and wants to do a good public course again.

Unfortunately, nearly all of the people we've heard from who want to develop one are overseas.

PS to Cliff:  Both Sebonack and Stone Eagle have agreed to host charity events [something like a Mayor's Day] as part of their permitting applications; I think you'll see more of that demanded from new private clubs.

[Steve_Roths]

Cliff - I agree with you about Pete Dye's free design fees for courses being wonderful, but I clearly don't expect that from Doak and Co.  This is a business that employs people and puts food on the table.  

I guess I am looking at it more as to why more developers aren't catering towards the public upscale golfers more.  There are few high caliber golf destinations in this country.  Off the top of my head I would think Kohler, Bandon, Pebble, Pinehurst, Kiawah, Sawgrass, & Bethpage.  Those are about it if you want to play a World 100 caliber course.  I know I am leaving out Harbour Town but you could include that into Kiawah or Sawgrass.  

Now, of those places which one would you back to year after year regardless of the coin?  For me the only ones are Pinehurst (1-3), Bandon, & Kohler.  The rest I could play once and would never miss a return visit.  

So, I guess all that I have to look forward to is the Prarie Club when that opens.  

[Cliff Hamm]

Steve - it would be presumptious for me to expect any arcitect to design for free and my comments are not aimed at any individual or specific organization.  I do, however, wish that arcitects once they have established themselves would devote a portion of their work to public access designs. Is this any different than lawyers who do a portion of pro buono work, doctors who will accept less payment from those in need, CPA's who devote some time in doing taxes for the elderly, etc?  It is certainly their perogative to do otherwise, but I would also hope that there would be some satisfaction in designing a course for the common man such as Dye and Liddy did at Wintonbury Hills.  It is one of the reasons that I have the utmost respect for Geoffrey Cornish.  His designs may not be the most imaginative but he gave back to the game and it is on his courses that many in New England were initally introduced to the greatest game of all.

[Tom_Doak]

[Slightly off topic]

I suppose we should update our web site with all of the new things we're signing up to do, but I have tended to wait until they are ready to proceed to construction.  There's nothing I hate worse than getting all kinds of questions about when [or if!] such-and-such project is going to start, when it's completely out of my control.

However, I might divulge one or two new ones shortly, because they are likely to make the press anyway.