new tee at Pebble's 17th?

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Huntley's right.  That typically need not be said, and in fact my saying it might weaken his case, but there I said it anyway.

Five feet isn't going to change things at all.  You still won't be able to see much of the green.  If the intent is to give a full visual, it would have to take way more than that.

And if you do more than that, you block the view from 3.

Of course this begs the question of whether a better view is needed, or would improve the golf hole.  Bob makes a great point there also - it's a very tough shot as it is, with historic ramifications - do we so soon forget Nicklaus in '72 or Watson in '82?

Here's a situation where there are so many reasons NOT to do something, and only one tiny one TO do it.  The NOTS win out.

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

One more question . . .
I don't remember the bunkers in front of the green being very high.

Ted, The raised lip on that bunker (and almost every bunker on the course) is not so high as it is sharp/steep. From the bottom of the bunker the rise is maybe 5' or 6'. The rise from the green on the backside of the lip is maybe 3'. A fine example of effective subtlety.

[Mike Benham]

Ted -

Click on the link below to get an aerial view of the hole (double-click on the photo and you will get the ultra-large detailed verions - do it if you are a dial-up customer) and you will see no shrubs or bushes behind the tee.  The championship tee is actuall on the other side of the road being shared with the 4th tee.

I don't like your idea (yep, I am pinning this "idea" on you ).  The unique green shape and bunker give multiple strategies depending on the hole location.  

Back left and you have to be ultra precise and you don't want to be short, almost a blind shot.

Front right and you can play multiple shots, a low runner or high and soft ...

Pebble's 17th Aerial View

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Benham's aerial illustrates the situation perfectly.  Standing in 3 fairway, the green is to your right, the view down 17 to the sea is to your left.  That view is one of the great ones in golf.  And you can see where 17 tee is and why said view would be blocked.

I think we need to check this out in person.  Gosh I wish I were going to the area soon.

 

[Andy Hughes]

Tom, what is that 'above' the 3rd hole, with that deep trench of a bunker ~ 40 yards short of the green? What a badass hazard!

[Mike Benham]

Tom, what is that 'above' the 3rd hole, with that deep trench of a bunker ~ 40 yards short of the green? What a badass hazard!

That is the 2nd hole and that bunker is a barranca bunker 75 yards short of the green.

In looking at the photo carefully, it sure looks like they are populating that area with trees.  Previously, I think there was only 1 tree, left of the barranca that rarely came into play.

[Andy Doyle]

#17 view from the tee:

[Andy Hughes]

Thanks Mike.  I suspect I may have to really try California golf someday. I hear there are some nice courses.

Andy Doyle, you seem to have made a mistake--there's only a grassy field in your picture

[Andy Doyle]

Pebble Beach or a pasture in Tennessee?

AD

[PThomas]

I must say that when I played my only round there I was underwhelmed by the view there

[David Ober]

I completely agree.

I got to number 17 and said to myself: "THIS is 17 at Pebble?"

Totally underwhelming. A raised tee would help quite a bit, actually, but I think the disadvantages outweight the potential advantages.

[THuckaby2]

Interesting takes on the view on 17.  I guess it all turns on expectations... See I knew the ground was flat there and didn't expect to be able to see much of the green until I was on it.  I also saw enough of it from 3 to satisfy me.

What makes that golf hole is the green - hard not to be inspired once you're standing on or near it.  SO much history... and from there it's quite a nice view in both directions up and down the shoreline.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

#17 view from the tee:

Sorry, but in my mind, this photograph is evidence for the defense.  Seriously.  

A PLAYING FIELD WITH A FLAG SOMEWHERE OUT THERE WITH SEA AND SKY BEYOND.  

Sometimes it's overwhelming to look outward and upward.  

Mike  

[Mickey Boland]

[quote

Sometimes it's overwhelming to look outward and upward.  

Mike  

Like the goober in the blue sweater vest in the picture?

[Mike Benham]

If this tee shot were over an inlet of Stillwater Cove (think the 2nd shot on #8), would we be having this discussion?

#17 view from the tee:

Sorry, but in my mind, this photograph is evidence for the defense.  Seriously.  

A PLAYING FIELD WITH A FLAG SOMEWHERE OUT THERE WITH SEA AND SKY BEYOND.  

Sometimes it's overwhelming to look outward and upward.  

Mike  

[JESII]

If this tee shot were over an inlet of Stillwater Cove (think the 2nd shot on #8), would we be having this discussion?

Speaking of that, what is the history of the Yacht Club? I assume it predated Pebble, why else would it be there? I wonder if there is a story explaining the financials of the relationship.

For some reason, when on the 17th tee you don't really get the impact of how close the water really is. This must be why some people are underwhelmed on first visit, no? I've only played twice, several years ago and from the back tee (4th tee) so that might be the reason as well.

[Ted Kramer]

If this tee shot were over an inlet of Stillwater Cove (think the 2nd shot on #8), would we be having this discussion?

Speaking of that, what is the history of the Yacht Club? I assume it predated Pebble, why else would it be there? I wonder if there is a story explaining the financials of the relationship.

For some reason, when on the 17th tee you don't really get the impact of how close the water really is. This must be why some people are underwhelmed on first visit, no? I've only played twice, several years ago and from the back tee (4th tee) so that might be the reason as well.

I'm not sure of the exact reason, but I am sure that I was underwhelmed. I stood on that tee a bit unsure as to what lay ahead of me. I hit a high cut that landed in the middle of the green, 2 putted, and walked to the 18th tee where I was so overwhelmed that I remember standing on that tee looking around, telling myself, "remember this, remember this".

I love Pebble. I'm definitely not one who knocks the course. However, #17 does nothing to add to my love.

-Ted

[THuckaby2]

Ted:

Again, I think a lot of this has to do with expectations.  If someone was to call 17 Pebble one of the best par threes in the world (as some do), and THAT is the expectation, well then it's normal to come away underwhelmed.  I think it's a neat hole and so much history has occurred there it rises to "great" as I see things, but if I had to rank the par threes at Pebble, even allowing for this "intangible", I'd do:

7-5-17-11.

Not many courses have overwhelmingly great third-best one shotters!

TH

[Doug Siebert]

Where are all those who wax lyrical about "skyline greens"?  Or does it only qualify as such if it is uphill?

Yes, it looks boring, but that kind of a shot makes it more difficult to determine a target, feel comfortable about the distance, etc.  Yes, of course you know the exact yardage, but with the wind always a factor you are bound to be second guessing yourself a lot with that shot.  I know personally I feel more comfortable over a shot when I can get a better view of the target -- it isn't that I'm hitting 10 feet downhill that makes it easier, its the confidence from seeing what the hell I'm hitting at!  If there's no wind, it makes little difference, but with a 20 mph breeze quartering in on you and that darn ocean hugging close to the left, something's bound to be puckering.

Besides, are those playing from the back tees really in need or desire of a better view from the tee?  I could see doing it from the shorter tees, though that would of course require doing it from the back tees unless you want it to become a blind shot.  While I'm 100% in favor of blind shots, a blind shot created by artificially elevating a shorter tee doesn't qualify

[ForkaB]

I've got an idea!

Forget about elevating the tee--lower the green!

This way you save Huckabee's viewing corridor and you get a punchbowl in the bargain! Not only that, but with a little more digging you could turn the spine in the middle into a dip, and Voila! you have a Punchbowl-Biarritz.  Then dump some of the excavations onto the right hand side of the green and you now have a Punchbowl-Biarritz-Redan.

It could possibly be the greatest "par" 3 in all of golfdom.........

[JESII]

And we could call it "The Mutt".

[Brian Noser]

here is a good pic of what 3 and 17 look like. i do not know how to post it so some one else can. it is from some one elses photo bucket on a seperate forum.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a383/va_golfer/?action=view&current=3and17.jpg

[THuckaby2]

Good find, Brian.  I can't figure out how to post that either -you need the URL to the photo itself, I guess.  In any case, that shows the view about which I was waxing poetic before.  It's even nicer in better light, less glare.  But anyway as you can see, a high tee on 17 would block this completely.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Isn't the 8th at Spanish Bay similar to the 17th at Pebble Beach? And if so? Why is it that when the reeds get high, on the pond at SB, is it so "unfair" or quality diminishing, because the golfer has no idea where the green starts and stops?(from an elevated teeing ground)

[BCrosby]

How about you move the tee slightly to the right, up near the bushes next to the road. You get a bit of added height and a more interesting angle into the green.

Bob