For all you SFGCholics

[Mike_Golden]

There's a strong rumor (OK, it's more than a rumor but I don't know whether it's been made public yet) that SFGC has approved the renovation of the golf course to bring back the original versions of 13, 14, and 15 in the next year or so.

There is an additional rumor that many trees will be taken out during the renovation as well.  

This is really a golf course that grows on you with repeated plays, what a great set of par 4's and, of course, the duel hole.

[THuckaby2]

Yes, that rumor is indeed going around.  Only the rumor was such renovation was PROPOSED, but not yet approved.  of course rumors being rumors, someone who actually knows what's what would have to confirm one way or the other.

 

IF the renovation does occur, that would be VERY cool.  The mind races at how cool a modern-day reincarnation of Little Tillie would be.  I'm just on record here as saying what's there now isn't nearly as awful as its detractors in this group make it out to be.  So if this doesn't occur, it's also not the end of the golf world as we know it.

TH

[Mike Benham]

Interesting - I had heard that the PUC was scheduled to repair/replace watermains through the southeast section of the property which would decommission some holes during the construction.

If the club decides to renovate these holes, that is wonderful.

I wonder if Mr. Doak will be involved with the project, if approved?

[Mike_Golden]

Huck,

You'll just have to read through the lines

Our caddie pointed out where the tee box for the restored Little Tillie would be and it's going to be really, really cool.

I agree that the current 13, 14, and 15 aren't bad holes (the 15th is a reasonable Redan-like setup although the green doesn't look like it falls off although my chip today ran through the green like it does) but 12, 16, and 17 are such good holes around those it could make them look worse than they are.

[THuckaby2]

Mike - gotcha.  Line-reading-in-between is not one of my specialties.

In any case this is really cool news - the result will be to make a fantastic golf course even that much better, without a doubt.  I'm just hear to reiterate what I said before re #15 - that is one hell of a great green right now, even if Doak didn't want to admit such himself.

Yes, last time this came up he came on here and said he himself didn't think it was all that.

But methinks that's because he REALLY wanted to have a crack at recreating Little Tillie, and wanted nothing said that could ever be construed against that.  But that is just my take.

 

[Sean Leary]

Is part of the reason they are doing this because they know that they are going to lose a number of those trees anyway in the foreseeable future?  Obviously the major reason to do it would be a restoration of what once was, but I am just curious.

I have heard about Little Tillie, but I don't know the details.  Can someone fill me in?

PS.  I wonder if the holes will be significantly better than they are now.  I can honestly say that I would not have figured out that those holes had been altered if I wasn't told that they were.

[THuckaby2]

Sean - you and me both in that wonderment.  It is actually sorta funny to me how some in here maintain how those holes now are SO out of place... JARRING to the senses... disjointing in the round... All of such has been said in here.  Jeez I like each of them and I'm with you in that if no one ever told me they were new I'd sure as hell never know.  In any case re this "those holes suck" take, I'm not naming names but the guilty know who they are.

 

"Little Tillie" is a tiny par 3 - 120 or so - that fits in just to the left of the current #12 green.  Diagrams of it show it surrounded by very cool-looking bunkers.  It apparently was one hell of a unique golf hole.  A restoration of it would be really, really cool... if done properly.  Methinks Mr. Doak is up to the task.

TH

[THuckaby2]

BTW, I have as much knowledge of the inner workings of SFGC as I do about the tribal rituals of the east Tibetan fruit bat, but I was told when I played there this past spring that the main reason for a restoration if such were to be done was that all of those trees are going to die soon anyway.  So take with an ocean full of salt, but there's my $.02.

Maybe someone with real knowledge will step in.  But hell, we're still dealing with rumors so no harm done.

 

[Sean Leary]

I don't know Tom, I was there a couple of weeks ago and I could have sworn I heard in the bar that you were next up on the waiting list for membership...

Quick story, I played behind Sandy Tatum's foursome on the back nine. (For the record ,that day, they were having a little outing between SFGC, Cypress, Seminole and Pine Valley.  It was logo nirvana on the first tee)  He pounds it for an 53 year old, never mind he is 83.  The caddie told me he had shot
73 two days before..

[Ari Techner]

I was a SFGC last week and I heard the same thing from my caddie.  He seemed to think it was pretty much a done deal.  I am looking very much looking forward to seeing it from his description and seeing the green Little Tillie will be a great unique short little par 3.  I did not think the 2 par 4 holes there were bad but to me they lacked a little bit of the character of the rest of the holes mostly in the fairway bunkering.  On a general note I had an incredible time and thought the golf course was right up there with any I have played.  

[Lynn_Shackelford]

They probably don't care, but the members would see the course ranking climb with a quality restoration.

When I have played the course, after the 12th, I start looking forward to the 18th.  On the front 9 I love playing every hole.

[THuckaby2]

When I have played the course, after the 12th, I start looking forward to the 18th.  On the front 9 I love playing every hole.

Really?

I love 13 and 14 - both very tough tee shots that yield birdie opportunities ONLY if the tee shot is successful.  Cool tree goal-posts on each hole.  The current green on 15 is cool.  The approach to 16 is very neat.  Tee shot on 17 is tough, and if anything is on the line that's a damn tough 4 to make.  I don't see any of these holes as weaker than 18....

I've never understood the high standards you guys have.  Methinks I need to get you out to Santa Teresa.

 

[Sean Leary]

TH,

I guess I missed the goal post feature on 14.  Are you talking about right in front of the tee? I didn't think they were in play at all.  Or the tree in front of the green? That tree is in play depending on the angle from the fairway, but...

[THuckaby2]

Sean - the tree(s) in front of the green on 14.  OK, so they're not goalposts like those off the tee on 13, but they do complicate things so much it makes me like the golf hole.  That is one fine green, also.

Yes everything is relative, and I suppose I can live with someone saying these holes are not as great as those on the front nine.  I just find calling them bad golf holes - or looking past them - to be a high standard I just can't understand.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

Ignorance demonstration time:
 
Is the present 14th green the original Little Tillie / 13th green? It lays as a reverse redan, suggesting it was once approached from the opposite direction.  

Mike

[Kevin_Reilly]

Ignorance demonstration time:
 
Is the present 14th green the original Little Tillie / 13th green? It lays as a reverse redan, suggesting it was once approached from the opposite direction.  

Mike

Yes, the current 14th green is the Little Tillie green....missing bunkering facing the 13th tee.

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks Kevin.

Aerial link:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+francisco&ll=37.709814,-122.477818&spn=0.007531,0.019712&t=k&hl=en

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

What a thrilling prospect, although I must admit I love it the way it is anyway.
I played there a couple of yeras ago, with very high expectations and was not at all dissapointed..awesome golf course.
If the "renovation" would make it any better..then I will be even more impressed.
It truly is one of the world's great courses , on a small piece of land..similar to Merion in that respect......I wopuld always encourage anybody to jump at the chance of playing it..in my top ten for sure.

[THuckaby2]

Cool aerial - looks even better when one uses Google earth.  Not that I would ever use such a toy.  And of course if I wanted to find my way to SFGC, or anywhere for that matter, and need to know anything else about my destination or anything near it, I'd be sure to use yahoo! maps, which is tied into yahoo! local, two far superior products to anything comparable offered by that search company.

 

[Tyler Kearns]

Yes, the current 14th green is the Little Tillie green....missing bunkering facing the 13th tee.

While I like the idea of restoration at many clubs, without proper documentation (as-built plan drawings, or period photographs), the "interpretation" of the architects style or concept is just that, an interpretation, making a true restoration impossible. The fact that the original "Little Tillie" green is still in play makes this project much more exciting, because much of the guess work has been removed from the equation. Old aerials can locate the golf features (tees, bunkers, original green dimensions) well, and hopefully they have some good old photos to restore the remaining holes.

Is it correct that the renovation that occured at San Fransisco GC was to accomodate planned changes to the highway that ultimately did not happen?

TK

[Mike Benham]

Is it correct that the renovation that occured at San Fransisco GC was to accomodate planned changes to the highway that ultimately did not happen?

I believe the freeway did happen ...

[Kevin_Reilly]

Is it correct that the renovation that occured at San Fransisco GC was to accomodate planned changes to the highway that ultimately did not happen?

I believe the freeway did happen ...

But the re-routing was unnecessary in light of the fact that the freeway did not encroach on the golf course as was originally thought.

[Geoffrey Childs]

SFGC is a great 15 hole golf course.  

I applaud any effort to put back the original three holes and given what was recently posted about TD's work at Pasatiempo I think SFGC will be improved greatly by his hand. The little Tillie par 3 looks to be a dramatic short iron shot.  I think a similar hole was lost at Quaker Ridge as well but that land is now tennis courts.  I'll check Daniel Wexler's book tonight. The two par 4's that will hopefully be removed are not befitting of such a majestic golf couurse.

I believe Kevin is 100% correct.  The freeway was built but it never needed to cut into SFGC's property as originally planned.

[THuckaby2]

Wow - now the current holes don't even exist?

 

Look, I'm sure we're all excited about the renovation - it's going to be very cool indeed.  But as long as the subject is up, are the holes that are there now really THAT bad?

That's like saying that was there at Pasa before a month ago sucked.  Sure what's there now is better... again I am just having a hard time with these incredibly high standards.

TH

[Sean Leary]

Tough crowd, Huck. I agree with you 100%.

Is Little Tillie going to be THAT much better than 15 (as a par 3) as it currently stands.  I don't care if it has the coolest bunkers in the world, its going to need to have tits to be that much better than 15, imo.  And from what I was told, the original 14 and 15 were straight away, unremarkable par 4's.  Maybe they were more than that, but I haven't heard it.

Look, the purists want to have it restored based on what Tillinghast designed, and I appreciate that, and I would probably want that too.  But to say that these three holes are THAT bad or that out of character with the rest of the course is a bit much.