Shinnecock tomorrow - a lesson learned

[Ted Kramer]

I thought you guys might get a kick out of this.
I'm a bit of an equipment freak and I think the golf gods might be trying to tell me something . . .

I posted this first over on bombsquad because it is more of an "equipment issue"  . . .
 

http://www.bombsquadgolf.com/invboard_release/upload/index.php?showtopic=91494

-Ted

[Ted Kramer]

lots of pics added above. . .

-Ted

[THuckaby2]

Ted - love the photos, love that bombsquad thread.  Oh yes, the "ho" karma came back to bite you.  Funny, I am no equipment ho, but I did have a similar experience... my long-awaited day at Shinnecock arrived and with it came a rattle in the head of my driver.  Played the whole day with it, including the round at the lil' ole course across the street.  It was quite detrimental to driver performance, yes.

BTW, speaking of that lil ole course, I see you say:

It is hard for me to imagine that there could be a golf course anywhere in the world better than Shinnecock.

My friend, you need to cross said street.  Not to mention get thyself to Mullen, NE.  But it is fair to say there are DAMN FEW that surpass Shinnecock.

TH

[DTaylor18]

Ted, great pictures!  I played there on Wednesday but didn't take any pictures.  It was a thriling day.  Thanks for posting the pics.

[Ted Kramer]

Ted - love the photos, love that bombsquad thread.  Oh yes, the "ho" karma came back to bite you.  Funny, I am no equipment ho, but I did have a similar experience... my long-awaited day at Shinnecock arrived and with it came a rattle in the head of my driver.  Played the whole day with it, including the round at the lil' ole course across the street.  It was quite detrimental to driver performance, yes.

BTW, speaking of that lil ole course, I see you say:

It is hard for me to imagine that there could be a golf course anywhere in the world better than Shinnecock.

My friend, you need to cross said street.  Not to mention get thyself to Mullen, NE.  But it is fair to say there are DAMN FEW that surpass Shinnecock.

TH

Huck,

If it was as simple as "crossing the street" and or "getting to Mullen, NE", I would have done both already .

Like I said in the other thread, I'll keep an open mind until I can see some other top tier courses for myself.

-Ted

[THuckaby2]

Ted - wouldn't life be cool if it was that simple?

 

Oh well, I didn't mean that to be as smartassy as it sounds, but reading it back I can sure see it taken that way.

I did just mean that Shinnecock does indeed have to be way at the top of any list of golf courses.  Just perhaps not at THE absolute pinnacle.  

We've batted this issue around many times in here.  Couldn't resist getting my view out there!  

BTW, those are really cool pics.  Thanks for taking the time to post them.

TH

[Ted Kramer]

Tom,

No harm in your post at all . . .
I understood exactly what you meant
And you make a perfectly fair point.
I have seen such a small sample of golf courses that it would be foolish for me to think that I have "seen it all" or could possibly judge the best of the best.

My comment regarding the greatness of Shinnecock is admittedly based on only one round. But that one round was BY FAR the most enjoyable I have ever played. That round of golf has drastically changed my definition of "great" as it pertains to describing or rating golf courses.

The course is both intense and fluid. The flow is never strained, the holes all fit wonderfully with one another and the intensity of shot after shot is simply incredible.

-Ted

[THuckaby2]

Ted:

Very cool.  Hell I'm putting myself out as this course expert and I've played Shinny exactly ONCE also.  

And it is great fun.  It's fantastic in every way.

The only thing that keeps it from the absolute pinnacle, for me, is that of the courses I put up for that - and for me that means Cypress, Sand Hills, NGLA, The Old Course, some others in Scotland/Ireland - it is the most difficult.  Oh, it is far from any torture test - it just doesn't "suffer fools" as Matt Ward once said.  And I am a fool who enjoys a bit of suffering.

Admittedly it's a tiny criticsm, and please understand it's just the thing that takes it from a potential #1 down to a 4-6 depending on how I feel.  And I mean re courses on this planet that I have either played or seen enough of to make an informed judgment.

TH

[Ari Techner]

Ted,

Great pics!  Your story sure got a good laugh out of me.  

Let me know if you need some help finding some new clubs!  

[wsmorrison]

Sorry, Ted but when I click the link I get a message saying I do not have access or something to that effect.  Do I have to join the site to view the pictures?

Shinnecock is my favorite course on the planet.  In my mind it is the most complete test of golf offering a variety of challenges throughout the hole progression as well as being such a natural looking beauty.

[Ted Kramer]

Sorry, Ted but when I click the link I get a message saying I do not have access or something to that effect.  Do I have to join the site to view the pictures?

Shinnecock is my favorite course on the planet.  In my mind it is the most complete test of golf offering a variety of challenges throughout the hole progression as well as being such a natural looking beauty.

For any of you guys who can't see the pics here are a few:

1st tee:


Great cross bunker on 5:


Looking back from the 6th geen:


7th tee:


Closer to the 7th green:


Even closer to the 7th green:


From the 8th fairway:


A little further up the 8th fairway:


9th tee:


A few from the 9th fairway:





A look from the 9th green back down the fairway:


10th tee:


11th tee:


13th tee:


From the right side of the 14th fairway:


16th tee:


17th tee:


Approach to 18th:



I'm obviously not to handy with a camera, but I hope you guys enjoy the pics!

-Ted

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Ted.  They do capture the drama of the golf landscape.  I think the tee shot on 14 is one of the best in golf and the rest of the hole ain't bad either  

The gnarly tree behind 7 looks wonderful!  I hope that everyone on the website that goes to Shinnecock tees it up from the obsoleted Flynn tee 7 paces or so to the left of the current tee on 7.  You'll see how the hole was intended to be played when Flynn changed the green and you'll be amazed at how much difference such a small distance makes.

[Tony_Chapman]

I don't know about this, but without the bleachers the 7th looks like a par-14 to me.

[Ted Kramer]

A few comments based on my Saturday round.

* #1 is the best opening hole I've ever played.

* The set of par 3s are as interesting, varied, and thrilling as you could want.

* The 2 par 5s are genius. The big bunker on the right side of #5 is one of the best "features" on the course. And #16 is just magnificient. The wind on Saturday was off the ocean making #5 play downwind and #16 play into the wind. The holes would be very interesting to play in the opposite wind, but I think that they have to play better in the wind that I played. The 5th green seems much better suited to recieve a long approach making the downwind option favorable in my opinion.

* #7 is scary as hell. The greens weren't overly fast and firm on Saturday but the shot was still super intimidating. I hit a flush 3 iron from 190 into a strong breeze that landed on the very front edge of the green. The following putt was the most exciting shot I've ever hit on a green.

* #11 is all world. Watching mid irons hang in the air approaching that mine-field was possibly the most intense part of the round. And when you get up to the green for the first time to see the horror that awaits the shot that misses long, you realize that those scary bunkers in front of the green might not be such a bad place to land your approach.

* The angle off of the 13th tee is brilliant. Much more playable and strategic than the famous fairway angle on #5 Bethpage Black.

* 17 might be the toughest club selction on the course. Everything just sits at a funny angle, and the wind is coming in at an angle too complictaing the issue further.

-Ted

[JESII]

Ted,

Would you agree that the longest (by far) par 3, #2, is also the easiest? Everytime the conversation about a best set of par threes comes up I have a really hard time imagining any set better than Shinnecocks.


You mentioned the angle off the 13th tee, and I agree, but I feel that characteristic is what makes Shinnecock such a difficult driving course. Most every fairway is set at an angle so that you must work the ball one way or the other to maximize the width of the fairway. Even without encroaching trees you stand on the tees really sensing that you must work the ball into the fairway.

Great pictures by the way.

[Ted Kramer]

Ted,

Would you agree that the longest (by far) par 3, #2, is also the easiest? Everytime the conversation about a best set of par threes comes up I have a really hard time imagining any set better than Shinnecocks.


You mentioned the angle off the 13th tee, and I agree, but I feel that characteristic is what makes Shinnecock such a difficult driving course. Most every fairway is set at an angle so that you must work the ball one way or the other to maximize the width of the fairway. Even without encroaching trees you stand on the tees really sensing that you must work the ball into the fairway.

Great pictures by the way.

I agree with all of your points.
And if I had to make par on one of Shinnecock's par 3s to win a prize I would choose #2 without question.

-Ted

[JESII]

Tom Huckaby might come on and argue that #16 at Cypress is good enough to be the best set of 3's all by itself, and who would I be to argue?

[THuckaby2]

Tom Huckaby might come on and argue that #16 at Cypress is good enough to be the best set of 3's all by itself, and who would I be to argue?

Yes, yes I might.  In the 10 point must system that hole is going to get a 10-4 against just about every other par three on this planet.

That being said, I am rather partial to #11 at Shinnecock, and #7 is a rather nice little golf hole also.

 

[Sean_A]

I have never seen so many photos of Shinny.  It looks so different than on tv.  It looks fresher somehow.  Shinny and Cypress have always been the two American courses I would like to play most.  Though, Sand Hills has been a more recent addition to this list of desires.  Nothing wrong with a trio.  

Thanks for posting the photos Ted.  They were most enjoyable.

Ciao

Sean

[Ted Kramer]

Two more decent pics  . . .

a better look at at the 16th green:


and a good look at the clubhouse from the 18th fairway:


-Ted

[Sean Leary]

On a similar note, is there ANYTHING more frustrating than going on a golf trip somewhere and having your clubs get lost en route by the airlines.  Three of the last 4 times I have flown into Philly, my clubs didn't make it until at least after I played (and once they were gone for good).The one time they made it was en route to play Pine Valley, thank god...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ted Kramer,

Thanks for the pictures, they're terrific.

The tree removal program at Shinnecock has dramatically improved the look and play of the golf course.

Now, if they would just return their fairways to their original widths, or near widths, the course would be beyond spectacular.

[David Ober]

The course looked brown and un-manicured in some areas -- especially around the bunkers. In fact, it doesn't look like it's in very good shape at all.

And this is supposed to be one of America's greatest courses? I don't think so...















Just kidding.  

[Jim Nugent]

Ted, is 11 the one that got so hard at the 2004 Open?  

[Ted Kramer]

Ted, is 11 the one that got so hard at the 2004 Open?  

I'm pretty sure that you reffering to #7,
which they watered during the round.

-Ted