[Tiger_Bernhardt]

How do you spend that much money? I want to be on that tit. I thought the tour knew how to flush money down an consultant toilet. They have nothing on these guys.

[ed_getka]

My neighbor has played it and he likes it. Non-GCA type. Apparently there are a lot of "streams" and enviro areas everywhere. The costs of this course apparently included purchasing 300 acres as a nature preserve or some such thing. Someone "poisoned" the ground and they couldn't grow grass on it, and then tried sod and it died too. This sounds strange to me, because I would think it would be a big project to poison any significant amount of a golf course.
  I am not chomping at the bit to play there, but will most likely play it before the holidays and will report my findings.

[THuckaby2]

Ed:

Why aren't you champing at the bit to play it?  I sure am.  

Man does not live by classic architecture nor fantastic courses alone.

Or did I just answer my own question?

 

[Mike Benham]

Looks like it is going to be a 17-hole course for awhile ...

Vandals damage new Pleasanton Golf Course

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   If I played as many rounds a year as you, then I might be less picky. Since I only get in about 25 rounds, I am not going to waste a single one.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:

I don't get many more than that - check my number of rounds posted since spring.

But ok, I get that though.  I just don't get how any NEW COURSE opening here wouldn't excite one.  We don't get those very often.... Hell I was really excited to play the brutally awful THE RANCH... of course that excitement lasted all of two holes, but still, seeing new local courses is always interesting.

No?

I'm gonna cash in serious marital/work capital to play Callippe at one point - more than I would for Rustic Canyon right now, without a doubt.

Blasphemy?

Well heck, it's a new me.  Blasphemy might be my M.O.

 

[ed_getka]

Tom,
  The other thing for me is if I'm not going to see some cool architecture, I would MUCH rather spend my very limited free time hiking up in Yosemite. I don't love golf enough to go see mediocre courses.
   Heck, one of my best days on my last trip back east was the day we were rained out and I spent the day at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
   However, let me know when you plan to make it to Callippe and I would love to join you. My house is 5 minutes away.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:

Very cool.  We've established this before.  We're just also VERY different on this issue, and it always fascinates me that we are.  Me - I'll play anywhere, any time, any place, and "great architecture" is neat, but is wholly secondary to the playing of the game.  I'd choose a round at Twain Harte par three course over a hike in the greatest part of Yosemite.

Different strokes.

But as for Callippe, hell who knows when I'll actually get there... it's just that I sure as heck want to and will make it a priority.  I shall be in touch.

TH

[JLahrman]

Gentlemen,

Thought I'd bring this back up.

I played this course for the first time on Sunday, along with BAGCAT veterans David Tepper and Ted Cahill.

On a separate thread, it looks like Mr. Benham posted a few photos of the course awhile back, but I thought we could go through it hole by hole for anyone interested.

I liked quite a few holes, particularly on the front nine. The greens are large with a decent amount of undulation. Due to the dry winter, they were rolling quite fast. There were a few holes, primarily on the back nine, that were awkwardly jammed into the land to accomodate the undergrowth and brush of the canyon's creek bed. But overall, an interesting course and I would play it again.

In compliance with Golf Digest's new "Play it Forward" campaign, we selected the 6,024 white markers as opposed to the 6,409 blue tees. Yardages given here are from the 6,748 black tees and the white tees that we played. Pictures are of varying quality, we were attempting to keep play moving. No waiting for greens to clear, or taking pictures of the hole from five different angles.

Hole 1, par 4 (433/388)

Relatively benign starter. The hole doglegs left with a downhill approach. You can see the large fingery bunkers, lots of those on the course.



The approach from about 150 yards out. No bunkers, but a creek borders the left side of the green. Approaches kick left, which can bring the hazard into play.



This green is flatter than most on the course, though a back-to-front and right-to-left slant is apparent.



Hole 2, par 4 (372/319)

A nice short par 4. The green is straight over the fairway bunkers to the left of the cart, and those bunkers are easy to clear if you're playing from the right tees. With a solid drive you can get it pretty close to the green. However, hitting the ball out to the right, short of the bunkers to the right of the cart, will probably give you a better angle in.



Here is the angle from the right hand portion of the fairway. The approach is longer, but the bunker short of the green is not as much of a factor.



Seeing this hole location, I'm definitely glad I went up the right side. You can see how little room there is between the bunker and the hole, and the slant of the green away from the bunker.



Hole 3, par 5 (550/510)

Straight and uphill all the way. Bunkers guard the drive and second shot.



From about 250 out.



From the right side of the green, looking back down the fairway. You can see the rumpled terrain, fairly common on the course.

[JLahrman]

Hole 4, par 3 (201/173)

Downhill par 3 with a large green and a large bunker. The swale fronting the green should penalize short shots, but the horizontal ridge on the green makes putting from above the hole tricky.



The ridge is visible in this picture from just short and left of the green.



Hole 5, par 4 (371/315)

A short par 4 that doglegs left. The bunker is actually up by the green. From the tee, the obvious play is to stay to the right and not fool around with the junk on the left.



However, the green is much harder to access from the right side, as I found out, particularly when the hole is on the right hand side of the green behind the bunker as it is in this picture (it's directly behind the bunker, well to the right of the players).



Here is where I wound up after my second shot. I only had about 70 yards for my approach, but had to either come over the bunker or play to the left side of the green and leave myself a monstrous putt. I went towards the hole, blew it over the green, and had this pitch. There is a vertical spine running down the middle of the green that divides it into right and left halves, not sure how well it stands out in this picture. I liked this hole. Putting the hole on the right side of the green probably makes the hole half a shot harder.



Hole 6, par 3 (142/116)

A short hole with a large bunker on the left that can be used to protect the hole. Only one picture of this hole.

[Kalen Braley]

I know it was alluded to back when this thread 1st started 7 years ago...

...but where did the $40 Mill go?  I'm not seeing it from these pictures..

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I doubt anyone can find 40 million. i am curious what the story is now. It looks like an ok course but nothing to get excited about. How was it?

[JLahrman]

I doubt anyone can find 40 million. i am curious what the story is now. It looks like an ok course but nothing to get excited about. How was it?

It's an OK course but nothing to get excited about.

[Joel_Stewart]

I doubt anyone can find 40 million. i am curious what the story is now. It looks like an ok course but nothing to get excited about. How was it?

It's an OK course but nothing to get excited about.

It's a Doak 2, maybe a 3.  Very poorly constructed, flat fairways, terrible mounding and greens that are nothing interesting.

The $40 million included the acquisition costs of the land and of course environmental stuff required here in California.

[David_Tepper]

Sunday was the 2nd time I played Callippe. It was better than I remembered it and I would rank it a better than average public course for the SF Bay Area. I thought the greens were actually pretty interesting, with much more slope and contour that meets the eye at first glance. If it was a little closer to where I live, I would play it more often. 

[ed_getka]

A decent course. I would rate it a bit higher than Joel at a Doak 4. #1 is decent starter downhill, dogleg par 4. #2 is a decent short par 4 that can be driven, but offers some trouble for those who don't pull it off. #3 a par 5 that steadily climbs all the way to the green that consistently challenges you. You would think it is a routine par, but resists scoring more than you expect. #4 is straightforward downhill par 3, nothing special. #5 is mid-length par 4 with a hazard down the left side that doglegs left. You would like to have your tee shot to challenge down the left side to make your approach easier, but the knowledge of the hazard there tends to keep you cheating out to the right to be safe and it leaves a tougher approach angle. #6 a straightforward short iron par 3, again nothing special. #7 par 4 is easily the best hole on the course and could hold it's head up in most company around the world. Uphill a bit off the tee and the hole turns left about 100 yards out, the green is on an angle and well protected by flanking bunkering. The hole really asks you to draw your approach unless you are long off the tee. #8 is a poorly designed short par 4 that most couldn't drive and the depth of the fairway bunkering makes it difficult to justify trying the carry unless you are longer than average. If you are long then there is really nothing to stop you from scoring. #9 is a little unusual for a par 5 where you are constrained off the tee by the hazard that crosses the fairway. A 3W will get you too close for comfort to the hazard for most, but getting driver over would be a big ask for most. The second shot is interesting with some centerline bunkering that asks you to pick left or right. The green sets up shallow to you a la #12 Augusta, so unless you are coming in from the left side you have to control your distance. From the left you are coming in slightly uphill. From the right you are coming in from about 10 feet below the green. .

[ed_getka]

On the back side #10 is another downhill par 4 with the only real consideration being the stream to carry about 30 yards short of the green. #11 is benched into the side of a hill pretty effectively. A midlength par 4 with a very uphill approach shot that is hard to gauge accurately. #12 is a downhill off the tee short par 4. You could drive it but the opening is very narrow and the penalty for missing is huge. Effectively a dogleg right hole with the approach being a short iron to a skyline green that makes the hole a nice test whether you go for it or lay back. #13 is a drop shot par 3 that continues the theme of mediocre short holes. #14 is a decent midlength par 4 that doglegs left with a green that drops away in the back third. A hole that on paper looks very straightforward, but requires you to play some good golf shots and a green that has enough movement to make a 3 putt a distinct possibility. #15 is a pretty unique par 5 with a downhill tee shot with a bunker guarding the desired right side, the hole then turns about 90 degrees and has another downhill shot. There is a pond on the left that gives you something to think about when going for it in 2. The green has decent movement. #16 is a longish par 3 but is pretty boring except for the hazard all the way down the right side that gives you something to be afraid of. A very flat, boring hole to maintain the theme of unexceptional par 3's. #17 is a nice par 4 with a hazard down the right side and then a stream to carry with your second shot. The hole really wants you to hit a fade for your approach to come in around the bunkers guarding the front right portion of the green. The green runs away from you a little bit in the front half so it is a challenge to get approaches close to the pin when it is in the front half of the green. The final hole is a par 5 that is a poster child for target golf. More to follow the screen is bouncing.

[ed_getka]

#18 par 5 Essentially the hole is parallel fairways with the first being for your tee shot, then the second fairway picking up about 230 yards out to the left across the seasonal creek and it about 8 feet higher. You lay up your second shot at the end of the second fairway and would generally play a 7 or 8 iron in on your approach with a conventional 3 shot approach to the hole. The tee shot is pretty straightforward. I think a long hitter could try to get his tee shot up on the left fairway that is across the stream, but I haven't seen anyone do it and the risk of ending up in the hazard is pretty high. Even with a good tee shot I don't think too many golfers contemplate going for the green in two as you most likely need to play a fade that would fly along the stream most of the way. The stream moves over to guard the left side of the green and you do have about 30 yards of fairway short of the green to land on if you go for it in two.
    Overall I would agree with Joel that the mounding between holes isn't done very well, however the greens have decent movement and some of it is even strategic. The course is rarely in great shape, but it isn't horrible. Play at twilight and I think you would enjoy it.
    The best part of the facility is the practice area. I played 8-10 rounds while I lived in the area (5 minutes away). However I practiced there about 200 times and only occasionally felt drawn to play the course instead of practicing. Most of my rounds there were with my son or father in law out of convenience. Not a bad course, just not much to get excited about. #7 and 17 are the holes worth seeing IMO. On the other hand I haven't been there in 3.5 years and can still remember every hole distinctly.

[JLahrman]

I'll get back to the photos tomorrow...agree with some of Ed's thoughts but not others...I do like the front nine more than the back.

[Patrick Kiser]

Joel,

Thanks for posting.  Looks like you guys had a decent time of it with some good weather too.

[JLahrman]

Hole 7, par 4 (423/366)

I couldn't help but notice that this is the #1 handicap hole. Seems a little odd, since it's not the longest hole on the course and does not have any OB or water hazards (unless you duck hook your tee shot).

As Ed mentioned, the hole bends to the left. The bunker on the right is to be avoided, although if you go too far left you'll bring a greenside bunker into play for your approach.



Here is the view of the approach from about 160 out. It's beautifully framed by the driving range nets. I don't see where you really need to draw the ball though. My drive was hit solidly, but very low and straight, and wound up in the middle of the fairway about 70 yards from the hole.



The green, seen from the left side. It has some movement but is not one of the more contoured on the course. I thought this was a solid hole, one of the better ones on the course, but did not stick out as being particularly excellent.



Hole 8, par 4 (326/295)

The eighth hole is not unlike the second hole, although #2 is a stronger hole. #8 is fairly straight, and the golfer must decide to either go over the fairway bunkers on the right, or stay to the left of them. The green is very wide, and the hole location could factor into that decision.



Here is the view of the green from the left of the fairway bunkers. This was the better angle with the hole on the far right side of the green.



I hit driver and wound up hole high and left of the green, which left me a pitch across the very wide green. Here is the right side of the green, seen from behind the hole. #8 is not the best hole on the course, though I liked it more than Ed does.



Hole 9, par 5 (568/513)

The ninth is where we see the first real evidence of California Canyonball. The creek bed cuts off the fairway. Naturally, I hit 3-wood too far into the creek.



I didn't get a good picture of the layup, but with the hole on the far right side of the green it was clear that the layup needed to be as far left as possible to provide an angle around the large bunker on the front right of the green. Here is where I wound up after my layup. Off the left of the fairway, but I still had to worry about the bunker if I wanted to go at the flag.



A view of the right side of the green, taken while standing on the left. The spine in the green and the bunker provide a lot of protection for this hole location.

[astavrides]

Seems like some of the holes (#7 for example) might have been more interesting if you hadn't played the white tees.

[JLahrman]

Hole 10, par 4 (446/403)

This hole runs parallel to #1, and also doglegs left with a downhill approach.



However, the creekbed is a far more prominent hazard, guarding the left side of the fairway and creating a forced carry on the approach.



The green has a horizontal ridge.



Hole 11, par 4 (348/320)

A short bunkerless par 4, with the main challenge being the uphill grade. Often we say that the degree of a slope is not captured by a picture. Consider that as you look at this hole. Unfortunately this is the only picture I took. I was so winded walking up the hill that I thought I had dropped my camera.



Hole 12, par 4 (322/282)

The tee shot is downhill, with the second shot playing back up. If there were more room to the left of the green, it might tempt more players to try to carry the pinched part of the fairway with a driver. As it is though, I have a hard time thinking I would do anything but hit an iron to the bottom of the hill. This picture is from about 200 yards away.



Here is the uphill approach. There is a bit of a skyline effect. I don't mind this approach, just wish there were more reason to think about taking a crack at the green on the tee shot.

[JLahrman]

Seems like some of the holes (#7 for example) might have been more interesting if you hadn't played the white tees.

That's very possible. Blame Golf Digest.

Then again, you've also seen my driver make a lot of holes play a lot more interesting than they're supposed to.

[JLahrman]

Hole 13, par 3 (163/137)

A downhill par 3. The tee box is very wide. This is the view from our tee markers. The tees could be moved far to the right, certainly enough to force the shot to go directly over the bunkers. Put the tees there and move the hole to the back right of the green, and you'd have a pretty interesting shot. As we played it though, the hole was very benign (especially because we were actually at the 123 plate).



A closer view of the green, and Mr. Tepper lining up his birdie putt. You can see the ridge that serves as a backstop for a front hole location.



Hole 14, par 4 (346/306)

A short dogleg left with the creekbed running up the entire left side of the hole. Plenty of room out to the right.



However, a tee shot to the right leaves a tough angle to the green, as the player will need to clear the bunkers and be wary of the hillside that can give the ball a firm kick left. Particularly difficult if the hole is on the right side of the green, as it is here.



Hole 15, par 5 (505/474)

This hole felt very awkward to me, just a little bit too jammed into the space. The tee shot was wasn't bad, with the object being to stay to the right without winding up in the bunker.



Yes, that is my ball that wound up in the aforementioned fairway bunker. If you're one that tends to hit fairway bunker shots fat, it might make you think twice about trying to clear the brush that cuts across the fairway. The landing area for the second shot runs hard to the left; if the course is playing firm you'll probably have to aim right of the fairway. You can see the 200 yard stake not too far in front of my ball. Had I not been in the bunker I might have thought about trying to knock it up by the green.



Here is the green, from about 80 yards out. It looked like one of the more manageable greens, with no visible ridges or plateaus. However, it does slope towards the pond which puts a lot of break on the putts. Seeing this view makes me think it wouldn't be a great idea to go for the green in two. It looks too easy for the ball to kick left into the water.

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