[TEPaul]

PaulT or anyone:

Would you mind showing me a photo of heather? Do all the so-called heathland courses have heather or have had?

[TEPaul]

"Notts is nearing the end of a significant rejuvination of their heathland course.  The process has taken several years.  The transformation is magic."

Sean:

Really? Tell us more.  

"The photo of Swinley is proper heathland.  Mind you, the bunkering adds a nice touch!"

That's what I thought. I don't know what "heathland" is really but that photo of Swinley Forest looks like what I thought it was. Would you say a truly traditional heathland course has trees or very few trees, or small trees or what? What did Sunningdale look like before Park Jr built a course on it---other than complete undergrowth?  I remember reading somewhere the entire site had to be cleared of something that was completely over it. What was the "something" that had to be cleared to build that first "heathland" course---Sunningdale?

[James Bennett]

PaulT or anyone:

Would you mind showing me a photo of heather? Do all the so-called heathland courses have heather or have had?

TEPaul

check the photo's that Noel Freeman posted ofr Moortown's Gibralter hole.  They are not necessarily the best of a heather expanse, but they do show as a close-up what heather looks like (see the latter photo's in NAF's first post, ie of the front right hand bunkers.  The post is at

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19981;start=msg355928#msg355928

I'll try and send you a photo I have of Moortown #3 rhs by email.  I haven't learned to post photo's yet!  Moortown may have lost some of its heather, but it still has some.  It is my only exposure to this topic.

James B

[Paul_Turner]

PaulT or anyone:

Would you mind showing me a photo of heather? Do all the so-called heathland courses have heather or have had?

Tom

Yes, as Sean writes, it's that thick stuff in front of the tee in the photo of Swinley Forest posted by Tim Liddy.  Blooms purple at the right time of year but it most often has that rust colour.

True heath courses have to have heather.  All the courses listed have less heather than they once had.  Although I think Swinley Forest must be similar to as it was in 1910.

It wouldn't take a great deal of effort to bring back the heather on many of these courses.

Glasgow Gailes is one missed in Scotland.  

Meyrick Park and Queens Park were once more heath than park (see Rountree's painting in Darwin's book for Queen's and its purple heather).  But Meyrick didn't have much when I visited.

Teignmouth definitely counts, quite a lot of heather there.

Mannings Heath?  website looks much more parkland if good nontheless.

Top clubs for restoring their heaths:

Walton, Blackmoor, Notts, Alwoodley, Parkstone

[Paul_Turner]

PS

How did you play Alwoodley and not know what heather is?  Too bloody straight?

[Michael Hayes]

Regarding trees and heathland courses...

Bernard Darwin --

"Now the Glorious golf properties of this country of sand and heather and fir trees have been discovered..."
   
            --from Golf Courses of the British Isles

[Mike Policano]

Mark Rowlinson, how's it going?  Just wondering, the three Wentworth courses share the same piece of land.  You exclude Edinburgh from the list.  Why is that?  

[Jack_Marr]

Cill Dara Golf Club and Castlewarden Golf & Country Club are also heathland, I think. I can't find a resource online that lists all the courses in Ireland according to their land type.

Anyway, I'd say there are pleanty around the midlands, especially Kildare.

[Mark Lucas]

OK, I'm trying to post pictures for the first time... so I hope they show up.

TEPaul, below are two close-ups of different types of heather.  The first is from England, and the second is a variety from New England.  In the UK, the heathers are much more aggressive than what I see here in the states.  The heather here, though hardy from a climate perspective, doesn't like traffic, etc.  





From a playing perspective, heather can be very penal.  As mentioned earlier, you rarely lose a ball, but you have to use a punch shot to get out unless the ball is sitting up.  If you have a decent lie in fescue, you can usually advance the ball much farther.

Also mentioned earlier, many of the heathlands have been overgrown, but there is so much good to expose if some of the overgrowth is eliminated.  I love heather on a golf course and wish we had more of it in the states.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Great photo’s mark.  For those who’ve never played a Heathland Course,

Reasons to be cheerful, Heather, part 3

1
It looks good in flower (pink or white) and resting (brown)

2
As reported above it’s quicker to find your ball in than long grass (and few losses too.)

3
I maybe one of Sean’s fools but I believe one of the joys is that about a quarter of the time you get out of jail (relatively) free.   Part of the joy of a Heathland Course is the walk to your ball looking see if you’ve got a good lie.  Unless it’s really thick you might find it has nestled right down with nothing behind it, and you can play full 9 iron out.

4
Often the ball is perched above the ground adding a further element of risk to the next shot.  You can go right under it or the other branches will move with the club face leading to an unpredictable shot.  Heart in mouth stuff in matchplay.

5
Mostly a ball deep in the heather is democratic. Even the best player has to respect a branch sitting right behind the ball.

6
Its tough. You can walk all over it, play your shot and it survives.

7
It can be used in very many ways by the designer.  But with a fairway bordered by heather the tree line is pushed right back. Simultaneously this increases the feeling of space while heightening the potential danger.

8
It grows on the vertical faces of bunkers adding immensely to the look.

9
Hole no 1 The Berkshire Red.  First shot of the day, downhill to the fairway.  Heather to carry, heather to the right of the fairway and heather to the left.  You know you’re in for a good day!


……

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Paul
Glad to see that I am not theonly one who knows of Blackmoor..if ever there was a true 'HIDDEN GEM'
Blackmoor may be the one!

[Marc Haring]

I think this subject could run and run. Rather than join in with the technicalities, howbout another pic.



Mown heather in front of the tee, gorse and heather filled ditch, longer heather around the edges, a band of the stuff at about 250 from the tee and a fair proliferation of pine and birch with the odd old oak for full effect. Classic heathland at its very best.

Any guesses on the course.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tom, I didn't mean to forget Ganton - probably it was so obvious that I thought it was already an obvious choice.

Mike, Good to hear from you again.  My recollection of the Edinburgh Course is that it was parkland plus a bit of water, fitted in wherever there was no housing, but you know it better than I and I am happy to be corrected.  The list was just to give a shooting gallery for others more expert to refine.

Should I have mentioned Diss in Norfolk?

Heather is heath, but a heath is also 'a large open area, usually with sandy soil and scrubby vegetation'. (Collins English Dictionary).  It requires a great deal of maintenance and is therefore pretty un-natural.  Why then does it have living creatures specific to heathland such as the Dartford Warbler.  Did I list Dartford?  I think it's also a heath....  As your Word spellchecker will tell you there is no word, heathland, in the dictionary.....

It's treacherous territory.

[Brian_Ewen]

Marc
I hope so .

As an enjoyable thread as I have seen in a while .

But please more technicalities , as I love being educated by you guys .

Do you think there is an attitude among some clubs nowadays , that its easier to grow grass rather than maintain this wonderful stuff ? .

A Favourite from the listed I posted .

[Paul_Turner]

A few v nice pics from little known Woodbridge (Mark listed it).  I haven't visited yet.  Looks to be the real thing.















Lifted from:

www.woodbridgegolfclub.co.uk

East Devon (Budleigh Salterton) has some heather holes.

[David_Tepper]

Paul T. -

Thanks for the heads up on Woodbridge GC, a club I knew nothing about.

According to the "1000 Best Courses in Britain and Ireland," Woodbridge is "One of the best courses in East Anglia.....Heavenly place on high ground....At is best in the autumn....A magical place - the best in Suffolk."

Sounds like a hidden gem to me!

DT  

[Brian_Ewen]

[Keith Durrant]

Love those bonnie heather pics...I can't resist !

[Mark_Rowlinson]

It really is a minefield - I'm opting out at this point.

[Tim Liddy]

I call and raise you one (#17 SFGC)

[TEPaul]

"PS
How did you play Alwoodley and not know what heather is?   Too bloody straight?"

PaulT:

Probably for a few reasons. One, I'm pretty much a dunce on any kind of vegetation. Second, I was playing with the incoming president of the R&A and his wife and that was a real trip! Third, that round and the one before it at Scarborough North Cliff were some good rounds for me---maybe the last I'll ever have. Even par on both courses so I was sort of grinding away and that's not great for observation of the details of the course. Fourth, you're damned straight I'm straight---short too! I just loved Alwoodley---everything about it. Nothing fancy smancy about that place, just the real deal through and through.  

PaulT and Brian Ewen, those photos you posted are simply incredible. They show courses that are what it's all about in my mind. Mark Lucas thanks so much for those two close-ups of heather. GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is amazing. One can ask for just about anything on here and he will receive. Impressive!!

[Marc Haring]

Four more.

This is actually #18 at Foxhills, which has not been mentioned and is genuine heathland in many places. My guess is that it is the most recent heathland addition in the UK as I too discount Queenwood due to the imported heather factor. Although it’s right next door to Foxhills and so has the potential. The Wisley has areas of heath but again I believe it was all imported.


Ferndown below.


This is in France. Lacanau Ocean near Bordeux. Much heather and gorse and of course pine in abundance. The strange morning light I later discovered was due to us playing in a near total eclipse of the sun. And I thought it was the excesses of the previous evening that was causing my eyesight to go.


And not too far away, Medoc. More gorse than heather but more open and an excellent course.

[Marc Haring]

Going back to Mark’s excellent list.
Newbury and Crookham I don’t think is.
Royal Ascot, hasn’t that recently been moved to another site?
Stoke Poges, no way. I worked there 20 years ago and they only had about 1 sq ft of heather then.
Yelveton I would describe as moorland (hey, maybe that's another genre to be discussed). Much gorse and bracken but I don’t recall too much heather. Might be wrong though.
Army, again I don’t think so. Maybe once upon a time but not nowadays.
Berkhampstead I would say is definitely heathland.
I would add The Edinburgh at Wentworth. There’s a fair bit of heather about and the soil is right.

[Brian_Ewen]

I really must get to Golspie to get a look as it intrigues me .

So educate me , how can you tell the difference between the Links and Heathland holes at Golspie ? . Is it visible to the eye , and is there a clear difference in the strike from the turf ? .

When I visited Craigie Hill in Perthshire last year , it looked like a parkland course to me , yet the feedback from the first iron of the day let you know it was heathland , and most of the course was like this , yet very little heather etc. was visible.

Here is another hole that is close to where I stay ? . Can you tell from a photo whether its Heathland or Links ? .
If anyone can name the course , I will stand my hand in the bar on your next visit ! .

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Keith where is that?

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