Great courses w/ no sand or water (or very little)

[SteveC]

It' s sometimes fun to see a course where there are very few, if any, water hazards. My home course (Tillinghast, 1921), for instance, has water in play on only one hole - a full carry, 186 yd par 3. In fact, it's the only water on the entire golf course. Likewise, it's unusual - for me anyway - to see a course which has very little bunkering. One of today's AOTD's struck me as very light on bunkers.

Can our esteemed contributors tell us about other courses (classic or otherwise) where water and/or sand are NOT part of the equation? Or, not in great part, anyway.

[THuckaby2]

This course is very far from a "classic", but there is a sporty little layout in Milpitas, CA (near San Jose) called Spring Valley GC that for many years had ZERO bunkers.  A re-design of one hole a few years ago put two neat little pots on one par 4, and more recently added a couple on a long par 3... these were NOT improvements in my mind, as they took away this course's reason for being... it remains a very fun course that's more difficult than it looks to score on, a la Rustic Canyon, but in the old days the "completely bunkerless" nature made it very unique.  Don't think the greensites were/are easy, either... They made up for the lack of bunkers with ingenious grass hollows, very tricky contours, etc.

TH

[Gary Smith (Guest)]

Steve,

The only water at Shinnecock is that pond at #6, and it probably doesn't come into play that much.

Never been there, but I'm thinking that Royal Melbourne does not have any water. Could be wrong.

[David_Tepper]

Royal Ashdown Forest, which in south of London, is one of the best known bunkerless courses in the world. It was ranked #94 in the Golf World Top 100 courses of the British Isles. The club's website is: www.royalashdown.co.uk

[THuckaby2]

Aren't there quite a few courses with no water?  Olympic Club comes to mind.... And David, great call re RAF.  That is always the standard for this discussion... They have no bunkers there because they weren't allowed to disturb the land, correct?

TH

[redanman]

Aren't there quite a few courses with no water?  Olympic Club comes to mind.... TH

The O has water on all 18 like all courses in SF. Ground water. Correct, none.
Muirfield-no water
Actually Royal Melbourne has 36 holes sans water.
Sand Hills , I believe has no water and.....
Unbelievably, the original and arguably best desert course Desert Highlands has no water that I can remember.

[THuckaby2]

redanman - right on re SF courses - such is particularly true today!

And damn, how soon I forget... Sand Hills does indeed have no water.  Not a single stake of any kind exists on that wonderful golf course... this is beyond cool in my book.  But like I say, there must be a lot of great courses that don't have water.  You mention a few great ones.  Of course you could say The Old Course has no "water"... does the beach behind the Eden hole count?  Most links courses that don't actually get down to the ocean would have no water, a al Muirfield.  In any case, much rarer are courses with few or no bunkers... RAF might be the ONLY course that could be called "great" that has none.

TH

[Stephen Brown]

I can hardly be considered an "esteemed contributor", but when we speak of courses where water is virtually a non-factor, Pinehurst #2 immediately comes to my mind. One pond, that is not even in play.

happy Holidays !!!

Stephen Brown

[Mike Benham]

Tom,

In fact Olympic Lake is the only course that I can think of that is named after something it doesn't have or impacts the course i.e. a lake ... in fact, one could argue that the Lake course is closer to the Ocean (the Pacific Ocean - the 1st green) and the Ocean course is closer to the Lake (Lake Merced - the 8th hole ..)

Speaking of Spring Valley, I always get it confused (namewise) with Spring Hills in Watsonville ... I surmise they are reveresed as Spring Valley is in the hills of Milpitas, and Spring Hills is in a valley ...  

[THuckaby2]

Mike - it seems that here in the Bay Area, we have the market cornered on confusing names for courses!  Beyond the OClub confusion, Spring Hills is in Watsonville, and although routed through rolling terrain is located in a little valley... Spring Valley, though set in a valley for the most part, is located up in the hills above I-680.  This likely confuses things even more!

TH

[Lou Duran]

Jockey Club- Red (Argentina) has no water and relatively few traps on a flat site.  Though some would argue its greatness, for the club player it is a fantastic course.  What it lacks in length, hazards, and topography, it makes up by great green and surrounds design.  Not a MacKenzie top five, but one which I would go out of my way to play again.

[Jeff Goldman]

I have read where a course on the RTJ Trail up north in Huntsville, Ala. has no bunkers.  I know nothing about the course beyond that (the only Trail courses I've played were near Birmingham).

        Jeff Goldman

[Chris Kane]

On the topic of Royal Melbourne, most courses on the sandbelt do not feature water in play, for whatever reasons.

Only exceptions are #13 14 and 15 at Huntingdale, and #3 and 16 at Commonwealth.

Kingston Heath, Victoria, Metropolitan, Yarra Yarra, Woodlands, Peninsula etc have no water hazards incorporated in their designs.  

[Paul_Turner]

Muirfield is the obvious British great without water.

As for no bunkers, Royal Ashdown is easily the best I've played, it works because the terrain and the routing is so exciting.  

Berkhamsted is a little known Colt/Braid course that has no bunkers.  It's a heathland course and often has interesting mound and humps instead.  Worth playing if you're in the area (north of London).

[Michael Dugger]

This thread has moved in a different direction than what I thought it would.  I wonder if the originator of it meant for it to turn into something about great courses without water.  I think it has been adequately shown that there are a lot of great courses without water on them.  

BUT.....
Think about courses without sand.  Even if they have water, who cares?  
No sand, none, zero, zippo.  Olympic club comes close, it only has ONE fairway bunker, but the greens are littered with them.  How many courses have no bunkers at all to speak of?

I know of a few 'sheep ranches' locally here that have no bunkers, but their other problems make this distinction a moot point.  

Think about this...a lot of people rave about the 14th at ANGC.  I like it, it seems like a good strategic hole because of the contours of the green.  But can you imagine 18 holes of #14 at ANGC?  Is there a course out there like that in the world???  Is it possible to keep us interested with no bunkers???  

I suspect not.  I think they are so absolutely fundamental to the spirit of golf, to dare a hazard risk a reward, that we would be hard pressed to see the day come when someone PURPOSEFULLY designed and built a course with no bunkers. Fairway nor greenside.

Is that a dare someone is willing to take on?  A revolutionary golf course architect?

[Doug Siebert]

I don't think courses without water are all that uncommon, particularly when you include courses where the water really isn't in play for reasonable shots by a halfway decent player.

You don't see courses without bunkers (aside from the low maintenance goat tracks most of us have within a half hour's drive from our homes)  I'd postulate that many American courses could remove the sand from their bunkers and replace it with 6" rough growing in the depression left behind and have a nastier hazard for better players while making recovery easier for poor players, and perhaps lowering maintenance costs as well.  I'm not saying I want to see this, just that I'm kind of surprised we haven't.

I mean, as it is most of us with single digit handicaps are wishing for the ball to find a trap instead of the greenside rough when we miss one anyway, the traps really aren't much of a hazard with the easily escapable bunkers most US courses have, when we are equipped with our sand wedges and demand perfectly manicured sand of the right amount, type, and consistency!

[Chris_Blakely]

Bethpage Black has water on the 8th hole in front of the green and it did not come in to play often at the US Open.

[Greg Holland]

Pinehurst No. 2 has no water to speak of -- 1 pond that is rarely in play.

At Augusta, 14 has no sand, and the whole course only has about 40 bunkers  -- not many comparatively.

[CHrisB]

Of course you could say The Old Course has no "water"... does the beach behind the Eden hole count?

I've sure hit it in the water at TOC!  The first time I ever played the course as an under-educated 15-year old, I didn't know about the Swilken Burn in front of the 1st green, and so my clever 5-iron run-up shot went right in.  Almost hit it in the burn again on 17 once trying to be a smart-aleck and go left.

Plenty of good courses without water, but I can't think of any courses I've played with more than 2-3 bunkerless holes.  Actually, Strantz's Tot Hill Farm GC in NC has 10 bunkerless holes and probably fewer than 20 bunkers total, but it makes up for that with hideous overuse of boulders, rocks, and hazards.

[redanman]

This thread has moved in a different direction than what I thought it would.  I wonder if the originator of it meant for it to turn into something about great courses without water.  I think it has been adequately shown that there are a lot of great courses without water on them.  

BUT.....
Think about courses without sand.  Even if they have water, who cares?  
No sand, none, zero, zippo.  Olympic club comes close, it only has ONE fairway bunker, but the greens are littered with them.  How many courses have no bunkers at all to speak of?

But can you imagine 18 holes of #14 at ANGC?  Is there a course out there like that in the world???  Is it possible to keep us interested with no bunkers???  

I suspect not.  

Is that a dare someone is willing to take on?  A revolutionary golf course architect?

I think all of us can come up with an interesting if not great hole sans bunkers.  No reason one cannot cut and paste these holes into a course and an interesting one at that.

Why would anyone want to except for the notariety or to  (Very expensively!) show that it can be done.

Historically, TOC is littered with bunkers, has little water, and until courses were built in places where the sheer amount of water dictated that courses be built with water as a primary hazard (read: Florida) or environmental restrictions (USA USA USA) dictated that wetlands be treated differently, TOC was a guide.  Bunkers endured with golf as the prime hazard, water evolved as a hazard over time. (Medically one might say "Bunkers were inherited hazards, water was an  acquired hazard.)

If you went to Tom Fazio with $40 Mil and said "I want a Top 100 course without any bunkers", his cut and paste method of terraformation could create you a Doak 5 totally without bunkers. And it would be his Masterpiece (see other thread). And it would make Golf Digest's "Best New Courses". Guaranteed.  

Also, I believe that Pocono Manor famous on All Star Golf with its 60 yard drop shot (Ross) has no bunkers.  So someone must have given him $40 Mil and said"Do it!".

[John_Lovito]

If I remember correctly Winged Foot West has no water other then a small creek on one hole on the back nine.

[Ronan_Branigan]

M Dugger

I agree with you in that I believe that hazards are a fundamental aspect of design. One could argue that a course doesn't have to use the aforementioned hazards to produce a good test. I think, as has already been mentioned, that person would indeed be a revolutionary architect! Robert Hunter in particular but also John Low, Max Behr etc went into extreme detail in regard to hazards and particularly bunkers. According to John Low " The true hazard should draw the play to it, should invite the golfer to come as near as he dare to the fire without burning his fingers". Sorry for going off on a tangent. Whatever the hazard the trick is to use it as sparingly as possible but with maximum effect.

[Bill_McBride]

No water at Oakmont other than a few small drainage ditches but a whole lot of great bunkering!