Real Trees!

[Bill_McBride]

GCAers as a group are down on trees.  Too much shade, too many playing lines blocked by trees planted years ago by an over-aggressive green committee chairman.  Oakmont looks better than it has in years due to clearing 2,000 trees, etc. etc.  

The Pacific Northwest, by contrast, has trees galore.  Nobody seems to complain too much, but I am absolutely amazed and awed by this shot of the 6th fairway at Columbia-Edgewater CC in Portland:



Some 200 arbor vitae (Sequoia) trees were planted in the 1960's by, dare I say it, an over-aggressive green chairman! The corridors are wide enough to hit driver if you are very straight.  Steve Lapper and some guys are going out there to play at Bandon and stopping at CECC on the way.  My advice: take your straightest spoon, it's not long but you had best be straight!

There's a foursome out in the fairway, who look like ants compared to the height of those magnificent trees!

Edit:  Redanman, thanks for the help!

[Michael Hayes]

TREES ARE PNW GOLF!!!!

Virtually every course in the PNW has way too many trees.  Sahalee is the poster child, with about 4000 too many trees...I caddied (i.e. searched for members balls) there for eight years as a kid.  Shade is the number one Turf issue in the PNW, I myself have removed over 400 mature fir trees from the grounds at Kitsap G&CC...

Notable exceptions to the too many tree law of the PNW include Gearhart Golf Links, Alderra -- very nice wide playing corridors dominate. Tacoma CC -- Which has 1000's of Fir and Oaks, but was blessed  by a routing that keepes the course amazingly playable after 90 years of tree growth...

#1 Quote heard by new supers at PNW Golf Courses.....

"Is this a golf course or a tree farm?!?"

[Mark_Fine]

Bill,
There is nothing wrong with trees.  They are a great asset on many many golf courses.  The problem lies when trees are added and/or used to alter the design intent of particularly older golf courses.  That is where most people have issues with them, at least that is where I do.  And like any design feature, trees especially can be very easily "over used".

The trees at Sahalee are one example of awesome trees.  Granted there may be a few too many.  However, anybody who thinks the place should be clearcut has little regard for variety in golf course design.  

My favorite courses are true links, but I also love a wonderful parkland style layout (just played one yesterday - Somerset Hills).  
Mark

[Sean Leary]

Also, at Sahalee, the trees were already there and trees wer ecut down to create the golf course.

Michael Hayes,

I was member at Everett CC for 5 years.  Everett makes Sahalee seem like a links course.....

[Michael Hayes]

I can't agree more with your assesment of Everett CC, they are taking serious steps to increase light through selective removal...

Sahalee is 1000000% better than it was pre pga, but they took over 2500 trees down on a golf course that was only 30 years old!

one other horrible example of too many trees could be anthing done by Robert Muir Graves here in washington...Canterwood, Port Ludlow, and another up in Burlington... not only are there still too many trees, Graves left 100's of big dead stumps to negotiate around...

[Marc Haring]

This is the most tree infested course I’ve played for a long while. Lacanau Ocean in Medoc, France.
Close your eyes, hit it quick and then go look for your ball. We were playing behind a party of about 30 Guy’s and the low stableford score was 22 points and he hit nothing more than a five iron.

[Sean Leary]

God I hate Canterwood..Might be the hardest course I've ever played.

Everett's problem is that the trees present the only difficulty on the course, and most of the tree removal has been near green to permit more sunlight.  ALso, since it is on such a small piece of property, the trees provide saftey as well between holes.

From what I remember about your course, there were few tight tree lined holes, but not too bad,  I do remember hitting the clubhouse with a shot on (maybe) number 9...

[PThomas]

I don't think I hate trees as much as many here....if they aren't causing maintenance issues what's the problem?  if it makes the course penal, so what?  don't go play there

[Andy Troeger]

I'm probably different from most posters on here because I highly prefer courses with trees to those without. I preferred Blackwolf Run River to Whistling Straits when I played both in the same weekend, and I also love Point O' Woods, which others here have said is in need of tree removal. I love the way that trees, when done right, frame each hole and give a feeling of separation from other holes.

Some of this is aesthetics, but realistically some of it has to do with my trend of hitting one drive straight right per round. I have much less chance of injuring somebody if there's a tree there to block my shot before it goes rolling into somebody else's fairway  

[Ryan Crago]

bill,

somewhat off topic, but i'm heading to bandon in december and coming through portland.. is CECC worth a play??  we had planned to play pumpkin and the reserve... both of which we've played before.  

rc.

[Michael Hayes]

Ryan, when I travel to bandon from the seattle area I always play golf on the way down.  CECC is nice, I personally think that Waverly CC is the cream of the crop in Portland...
Eugene CC is a must if you haven't played it yet.  Out of the way but very cool would be Astoria CC or Gearhart GC

[Sean Leary]

I would agree with Michael on Waverly.  I also like Royal Oaks quite a bit.  These are both private, if you can get on, then great.

Michael, Eugene CC doesn't get much love on this site. I like it a lot as well, but most here feel that it is overrated, particularly compared to the Classic Courses back east.  I think it is the best classic course we have in the NW, by far, but it isn't very well received on here.

Have you been out to Tumble Creek yet?

[Michael Hayes]

Good on you sean for the Royal Oaks call, great conditioned course (too many trees!)

Its too bad Eugene CC isn't respected here becuase it has a pretty unique history and a great set of par 3's.

I haven't been on Tumble Creek yet, I played the Prospector with an outing this summer and ran into an old friend, he's now the Head Golf Pro. I will see it soon for sure!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I've played a lot of golf in Oregon, more specifically Portland, and not once did you mention Eastmoreland in any of this. For shame, for shame!

Another few that aren't being represented are Heron Lakes, which I think the old RTJ course is pretty good. The same with Waverly (as mentioned and the Muir-Graves Boondoggle all of them all in Oregon, Lake Oswego. He destroyed that course.

Still, I think it really is one of the courses you could probably restore to great length, cutting down thousands of trees to reveal the most majestic mountain in the entire US of A, Mount Hood. The greens there from memory looked to have been something else at one time--maybe H. Chandler Egan's best.

I have a certain special place in my heart for Tualatin CC. even though it has changed quite a bit (Egan 9 + Committee 9 = Death By Committee 18) the trees there are great, none way too imposing, but of the seemingly same height as C-ECC. Go play Killarney West and see how big the trees are there too! Then there are the good trees at Orenco Woods (both of these are 9 holas) And of course the chance of what they could have done with the property at Merriweather. I still think it could be a really fun course to play with some green changes and bunker changes. It's on sandy soil too, right next to a river. The course plays in and out of the trees.

[Sean Leary]

Tommy,

I think that the back nine at Eastmoreland may be the best nine holes in all of Portland.  

I have also heard that there have been significant improvements to Emerald Valley, a public course outside of Eugene.  I had a friend who is a really good player and liked it more than Eugene.....Might be worth a look if you want to stay on the public side.

[Michael Hayes]

Back To Trees...

--Northwod golf club--
The Largest Trees I have every seen are on a little nine holer on the Russian River in Northern CA... its  a Mackenzie but was ruined in the 70's when the made all the bunkers round... The Course has 250-500 old growth redwoods, these things were 10 + feet in diameter when I walked it a few yews ago...I have an old brochure from the 50's that has an over head pic with all the great bunkering, I will find and post...

[Bill_McBride]

My brother is a member of the men's club at Emerald Valley, a semi-private place, and speaks very highly of the work done there in the recent past.  I think the Oregon golf team plays there (could be wrong), but know they added length and improved the drainage.

A top feature of Columbia-Edgewater is the best drainage in the Portland area.  I have been told it is very playable when many courses are not.  This will affect me not a whit, as my plan is to play CECC as much as possible in the summer and Pensacola Country Club in the rest of the year.

Ryan Crago, have your pro call Bryan Tunstill at CECC, shouldn't be a problem.

[Doug Siebert]

That Russian River course probably doesn't have many tree issues  because those redwoods were obviously there when the course was designed.  Plus, the lowest branches aren't exactly going to get in your way when swinging!

I'd hate to see how bad of a ricochet you get when you hit solid wood 100 feet off the ground though  

My issue with trees on courses is not when they are in the periphery or used to separate holes.  Its when the damn greenskeeper thinks he's a forest ranger and has to fill up every damn open spot on the course with 'em.  At my home course there's a little nursery between the 5th and 6th holes where over a hundred saplings are grown each year, and placed in any open spot they can find that's in play!  I figure there's about 3 or 4 more years of that and they'll have to start planting the damn things in the fairway!  I'm sure the next time we're rated between the trees and a one new tee we'll be pushing 75.0 and be in the high 130s, but it'd play a lot better without a couple thousand trees at 73.5/130.

[Tom_Doak]

I am curious as to the reception Tumble Creek will get from the Seattle crowd ... we opened up the trees pretty good to take advantage of the views of the surrounding landscape, and to make it playable.  But it's a lot different than Sahalee!

[Peter Pratt]

The most overtreed golf course I've played is Elk Ridge in northern Mich, a Jerry Matthews design. The course has 3 double-dogleg par 5s. Its first hole is the inspiration for one of the funniest lines I've ever read--from Doak's Confidential Guide. One of Tom's friends said he hit his drive into the trees on the first hole and the ball ricocheted into the trees on the other side of the fairway without hitting the ground. How this course is rated higher than (for example) the Kingsley Club is beyond me.

[Sean Leary]

Tom,

How many of the holes required having large numbers of trees cut down in order to create playing corridors, ala Sahalee vs how many were routed through more open areas?

[David Panzarasa]

Trying to read as much as I can to figure out why so many people here dont like trees? I am now thinking that it is because of course condition issues? what is the problem that trees cause to a course? The shade causes issues? I actually wondering if there are real issues from that. And people dont like the way trees play in a course? I am confused with that. If you hit a bad shot you go into the trees, it should be like that. or if you know that the tree on the left side of the hole is in play,then you must hit to the right, what is wrong with that? Not trying to start a "thing" here, but it seems many people want the course to be easy, as in you if miss the fairway you should be able to still have a shot at the hole with little penalty? i personally love the look of tree lined courses and much rather be in massive trouble for missing 20 yards right from a fairway then being able to get a great view at the green with just some rough as my penalty. I have posted my best scores on courses that are treeless and know the reason for the great scores, I am never in real danger! i always have a shot at the green, and I personally do not like that at all.
 A previous poster here said he likes to see more holes when looking, and I cant argue with that opinion, if you like that then you like that! If it is beauty in your eyes when seeing the whole course without trees than that is fine by me as well, but if it is because you lose angles to a whole, then I am very confused on where people lose angles to whole because of trees?

[Bill_McBride]

David, shade makes it difficult to grow solid grass.  So many trees are removed for that reason.

Other trees may have been planted in lines of play, i.e. between a fairway bunker and the green.  Or the tree canopy may have have grown so large that lines off the tee are blocked.  (California Golf Club south of San Francisco comes to mind!   .  

The big problem is that green committees over many years planted trees where they shouldn't have.  They aren't a problem when they are little, but once they grow..... (A good example that frankly shocked me was a little mini-grove planted just short and right of the 10th green at Cypress Point.  Why?   )

Other trees were planted to create that feeling of isolation, or to separate one hole from another, but as those trees grow into large trees, the beauty of a vista across the course is lost to thickets of wilderness and views are blocked (think Oakmont now opened up!  I was astonished to hear that you can now see the clubhouse from the 15th green!