Is playing TOC in reverse one of the great experiences in golf ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

And, what can be learned from playing and studying TOC in reverse ?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Patrick - the problem is so few of us have ever experienced TOC in reverse that its hard to have an opinion.  Of the 1500 GCA-ers, I'll bet that no more than 10% have ever played the course... in forward order.  Only 5-10 have played it more than once and you may be the only one to have played it in reverse.

J

[David_Tepper]

There was an article about playing the reverse TOC in the Sports Illustrated "Golf Plus" supplement issue previewing the British Open that was published in early July.  I think Alan Shipnuck wrote the article based on his playing of the reverse TOC in early April of this year. I cannot recall what observations he made or conclusions he arrived at from the experience. It is possible the article may be available online.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jonathan,

I've not played TOC in reverse, although it's certainly one of my golfing goals.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Was my thread on the reverse old course not good enough for you???  

I'll let y'all know next April.

[Bill_McBride]

Check out Jeremy Glenn's "In My Opinion" piece on the reverse Old Course, very interesting and creative.  I have no idea how many of his suggestions the Links Trust has taken into consideration much less action.

We were sitting in the bleachers at #14 during the Open in July, wondering if anyone would ever have a problem with Hell bunker (no).  Looking down that direction I was bemused to see a bunker about 150 yds back toward the #14 tee, which was carved into the greenside face of a mound, and realized that was in play off the reverse tee at one time!  Very fascinating......

Would love to join Mr. Nuzzo in April.  How's that baby?

[Doug Siebert]

Jonathan,

I agree that probably very few have been fortunate enough to play TOC in reverse, but I think your estimates of how many have played TOC in the normal order once and (especially) more than once are way low.  I've played TOC twice (forward both) but I read about all these guys playing PV, CPC, Sand Hills, and on and on and I feel jealous  Getting to TOC, especially for those on the east coast, isn't exactly like getting to Barnbougle in either time or money so there probably aren't many who have it as their #1 golfing goal who haven't done it yet.

I remember in another thread a while back talking about getting to Pebble, the general consensus was that for those of us in the midwest or on the east coast, it was probably a wash in terms of time and cost going on a trip to play Pebble versus a trip to play TOC, and I damn well know which one I'd pick from those two!

Back to Patrick's question.  I'll go in his style and answer a question with a question.  If playing TOC in reverse is so widely regarded as a great thing, why in the heck does the R&A only do it early in the year when the weather's very iffy?  Are they still on mats then or does that end on March 31?  If they did a reverse TOC on the first of every month, I'd schedule my next trip around it.  But I can't see making a trip out there just to play TOC in reverse, when the weather's likely to be so bad I'd be lucky to play more than a couple times in a week, and one of them might not be the day I'd booked TOC (sorry I guess I must be a big pussy, because I'm not one of those nutcases who plays when it is in the mid 40s and with howling wind and spitting rain)

[Mitch Hantman]

I never played TOC in reverse, but when I played TOC last month, I looked at the course from the reverse perspective, and it appears that due to many holes which have significant rough 10-30 yards behind the greens, it would not be as big a thrill to play the reverse course due to the awkwardness of trying to bounce the ball on the green through these areas.  I inquired while there if they mow those areas down just for the April dates, and they do not.  

[Brian Phillips]

No it is not...having played both ways in the same year, same month...it is forced and does not flow as well as the new routing.  It is very congested and seemed to be even more dangerous than the modern routing..

[Darren_Kilfara]

I agree with Brian - I have played TOC around 30 times in the correct order and once in reverse, and the reverse experience, while unique and interesting in some ways, wasn't as great as I hoped it might be. This is largely due to the mowing issue Mitch describes and the congested routing Brian describes, but also I thought that a number of holes didn't offer the same level of strategic interest that their mirror-image holes do in the modern routing - only in a few places do I remember being really intrigued or excited. (I played TOC backwards a few years ago, so I would hesitate to offer any authoritative specifics, but that is certainly the impression I had at the time.)

Still, I'm glad I played the reverse routing at least once to find this out for myself...

Cheers,
Darren

[Andy Hughes]

I have played TOC around 30 times in the correct order

Darren, you spent a year living there and only played the course 30 times? Methinks you went to class too much!

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Brian, Mitch,

Would playing the Old Course in reverse be a better experience (i.e. less congested) if the routing I suggest in "My Opinion" was used, especially around the loop?

Has your experience on the Reverse course given you any perspective on what would work or wouldn't work in my suggestions?

[Doug Siebert]

I think for me at least playing into 17 from the other side would be ten times more terrifying because there is absolutely NO margin to pull or hook at all, and if I cheat right then I get to pitch it right over the Road Bunker!  I'd probably be better off playing deliberately long right and chipping back!

If I win the $340 million Powerball jackpot tomorrow, I'm going to call the R&A and see if I can book the course for an entire day next summer and host a GCA event there Sheep Ranch style.  I think that might be more fun that playing it forwards or backwards

[Marty Bonnar]

If I win the $340 million Powerball jackpot tomorrow, I'm going to call the R&A and see if I can book the course for an entire day next summer and host a GCA event there Sheep Ranch style.  I think that might be more fun that playing it forwards or backwards

Doug,
calling the R&A to try to book TOC will have as much effect as calling ME!
The only people to call are 'The Links Trust'.

A pleasure assisting!

FBD

PS The above advice, if taken, is subject to a finders fee of 10% of your lottery win!

PPS I've never played TOC in reverse. I have however walked it in reverse often and must say it would be fun. Although not getting to see things like HELL up ahead would lessen the experience I feel.

[Doug Siebert]

Well, that's OK Martin, I didn't win, and if I did I'd probably have hired someone to book it for me and he would have eventually figured out who to call.

Seems to me that NOT seeing Hell might make it a bit more fearsome.  You'd know one of those bumps out of there had Hell behind it, but you wouldn't be sure exactly which one.  That, and knowing that a hook could be a real problem, would probably be enough to make me play my tee shot off #16 tee to #14 green via the 5th fairway just to be safe  Actually might not be a bad angle to approach #14 green from the behind off the 5th fairway...

[Kyle Harris]

Would Hell from that direction be as Hellish?

[Doug Siebert]

I guess I never looked at it that closely when I was there before since I wasn't playing it into a really strong wind where it would come into play.  So I can't remember if it has much of a lip on the low side.  I guess the worst you'd face might only be a downhill lie in the sand.

Plus I guess it probably wouldn't be that hard to carry off the 16th tee anyway so you are probably right.

[Marty Bonnar]

What you see looking from the 15th Tee is a really gnarly, rough, unkempt series of small mounds and depressions about 60 yards ahead and to the right.



Unfortunately, it would be carryable (if actually in play!?) by even a player as bad as the likes of me as it would require a really awful duffed slice (which has been known)...or a pull hook for the corrie-fisters.

FBD.

[ForkaB]

Martin, et. al.

My understanding is that when TOC was single file, you played 5 from where the current 4th green is over Hell to the Elysian Fields.  There was no (modern) 5th fairway in those days to bail out right.  It was probably a pretty fearsome tee shot, particularly in the feathery age.

[Mike_Cirba]

Hey MacWoo...er..um...Rich,

What are you doing providing historical perspective?

Someone is going to mistake you for a purist in here!  Now, go back to being the good contrarian that you are.  

[ForkaB]

Hey MacWoo...er..um...Rich,

What are you doing providing historical perspective?

Someone is going to mistake you for a purist in here!  Now, go back to being the good contrarian that you are.  

My publisher made me do it!

[T_MacWood]

When Hutchison produced his series on the famous hazards he chose Hell bunker first. Surprisignly he concluded the bunker was overrated at that time (1899), at least overrated in comparison to what it had been. When the course followed the same path out and in due to the whins, Hell came promntently into play twice....and from Horace's decription it was a little more wild and unkept in those days as well.

[Ben Attwood]

I thought I'd resurrect an old topic to highlight this video. It looked they had a great experience. Hickory, one of the best players in the world and the reverse old course. A very enjoyable watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA0OvJN4Loo

[Tom_Doak]

It’s really not a great experience - partly because they don’t mow some of the areas you want to hit to.


Honestly (and modestly  ) playing The Loop forward and back is a far better experience than The Old Course, because both directions work well, and because The Loop changes direction more often to provide more variety.

[Mike Hendren]

This I  know:  Playing The Old Course is the greatest experience in golf.  The opportunity cost - i.e., foregoing another round along the current routing, is simply too high to bother playing it in reverse.  Unless your prime objective is to appear "cool,"  enhance your street cred or pose as a member of the cognoscenti a reverse round is foolish in my book and a waste of time and space.


Bogey