[Jeff Shelman]

I'm going to be in New York in about 10 days for about 48 hours. I land at JFK at 10:40 a.m. on a weekday and don't have much to do that day.

Here are my questions:

1. How realistic is it to get on the Black?
2. How long will it take to get there from JFK?
3. Should I try to make a tee time?
4. Or am I better off simply driving out there and play the Red if I can't get out on the Black?

I would like to think that the demand has fallen off by late October, but I have no idea.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Jeff-

  Good questions!  
Here are some answers:  

1.  If it's a weekday, you might get lucky, but I wouldn't show up that late in the day without a tee time--figuring darkness falls sometime in the 6:30-7:00 range.  Anytime after a 2:00 tee time may not finish.  
2.  From JFK, it's only about 20 miles--could be 20 minutes, could be an hour and a half.  I don't recall any construction on the Southern State last week, but this changes all the time.  1010 am (1010 Wins) has traffic and weather on the 1's, so this helps.  PM me if you need a couple of alternate routes.  
3.  You could try to make a tee time--mind you, if you don't purchase it an hour before, they'll re-sell it.  Especially for Black, it'll go quick.  Never had it happen with the other courses, though.  This happened to me once, getting stuck in traffic going out there.  Missed the 1 hour window by 20 minutes or so, it was gone.  What can you do?  Now, I'm not taking into account delays at the airport, car rental hassles, or the like associated with airport travel.  I can help you with registering if you don't have a system ID.  
4.  The Red is very, very good--and fall is a wonderful time to play it.  Hopefully, it will get windy and dry between now and then, as we've gotten soaked the past week up here.  Red is never a bad choice, and I'm of the opinion that you can have more fun if you're a little bit off--the Black will kick your ass and eat your lunch, the Red will just bruise you.  
Red is especially good in the afternoon, when the winds kick up.  Most of the first nine is pretty sheltered with trees--but once you hit #8 through #15 and then #18, it's game on!  

Demand falls off a little late in the year--but not much.  There are still plenty who are there to play it. I've still seen people out there at 4:30 in the afternoon (in October) camping out when I'm leaving the park for the day.  

PM me if you need any other help/suggestions.  Tell me your days off, too--if mine sync up, and you need a playing partner, I'd be happy to join you.  

Best,

Doug

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

At this time of year, your chances of getting out as a single are excellent.  I would recommend calling to find out if the Black will be open.  It does get closed down for maintenance at times, or occassional outings.  No matter what, Red is an easy play and you will be impressed.  If you are on the Black, walk up to the 4th green when on the 18th tee.  Compare the Redans--which one has a better green complex?  If you are really backed up, hustle over the the 1st green--pretty awesome hole!

[Lou_Duran]

I was there in July and late September and both the Black and Red were easily accessible for a single.  That may have been an aberration but the people I played with said that getting on as a single or two-some is much easier than reported.

Keep in mind that playing in five hours at either course would be really fast.  It took nearly six hours to play the Red and no one but me seemed to be phased by it.

Also, don't expect good conditions or civil treatment.  Both times I've been to Bethpage I noticed that people seldom rake bunkers, fix ball marks on the green, or seem to know the purpose of trash containers.  The fairways at the Red are pretty sparse and the greens are in average condition at best.

Also, be careful what you say and how you say it.  At the Black, one of the singles joining me damned near got in a fist fight with the starter, making my initial piligrimage rather tense for awhile (it didn't seem to bother him).

On the Red, a playing partner asked the group in front of us to go through on the first par 3 (they were a full hole behind by #3), and they about blew a gasket.  For three or four holes afterwards, everytime we came close to them they made snide comments about us, perhaps trying to provoke a fight.

The Black is a great course.  The last dozen or so holes on the Red are also very good.  It is a shame that the facility is so poorly run, but like so many things in and near NYC, you take the bad with the good.  I sure wouldn't want to be the general manager there.  

[Jason Blasberg]

Keep in mind that playing in five hours at either course would be really fast.  It took nearly six hours to play the Red and no one but me seemed to be phased by it.

Also, don't expect good conditions or civil treatment.  Both times I've been to Bethpage I noticed that people seldom rake bunkers, fix ball marks on the green, or seem to know the purpose of trash containers.  The fairways at the Red are pretty sparse and the greens are in average condition at best.

On the Red, a playing partner asked the group in front of us to go through on the first par 3 (they were a full hole behind by #3), and they about blew a gasket.  For three or four holes afterwards, everytime we came close to them they made snide comments about us, perhaps trying to provoke a fight.

Lou:

Wow, you are certainly not from New York!!

You're right on about the pace of play, it's torturously slow at best.

You're way off on course conditioning, however, because the Black and Red are usually in great shape, in fact the Black is better kept than most private clubs on LI.  I played the Red in early August and the greens were in the best shape of any course I'd played.  You've got to remember that courses in the NY Metro area took a real beating this summer, with many elite clubs losing greens, etc.  

I think Texans and New Yorkers have different definitions of a fight.  In NY, it's not a fight unless someone bleeds

(P.S., many years ago I got paired with a guy who said he was playing a public course out in Eastern Suffolk and a fight broke out because someone hit into the group in front of them and the guy in the front group, after getting a little bloody, pulled out a gun!  I've no idea if that's true but fist fights to occur on NY public courses . . . just think of it as extreme golf )

   

[Lou_Duran]

Jason,

I enjoy New York.  It is without a doubt one the most exciting city I've visited and the Mecca of golf.

Bethpage is an outstanding facility.  Yes, the summer was brutal, no doubt as a result of global warming, and we all know who is responsible for that.

As to Bethpage's normal conditions, I will defer to you on that as you're a local and I am an infrequent visitor.  Statistically, I guess that it is possible that the two times I've been there the conditions were aberrant.

Perhaps the same 50 or so guys who played in front of me at the Black in July and trashed the place were also by chance there in September when I had a go at the Red.  I suppose too that the other courses I played were in a micro-climate during the same time and were spared the heat's wrath.

Or maybe I am becoming a private course snob,   God, if I am, please slap me out of it.

The Black was definitely in better shape in July than the Red in Septmember.   I wonder how much of the deterioration of the fairways had to do with extensive cart usage on the Red (carts are not allowed on the Black).  Now, if they could only prohibit golfers from using those beautiful bunkers (since they won't rake them).

[Kyle Harris]

Jeff,

I wholeheartedly recommend you take a look at playing both the Black AND the Red if you get the chance. The Red is simply superb and I believe it is an all around better test than the Black, especially with the new back tees. The distances are similar now but the Red's test is more about strategy than pure execution like that on the Black.

Also, the Red is a bit more cost effective.

RMD,

While the 4th on the Red may have some qualities of a Redan, I don't believe it is actually to be considered one. I had a pretty in-depth conversation with Phil Young about this hole while we were playing it in August and he said that the hole in it's original form was not copied from the Redan model.

I thought, at first, as you did though - and the right side of the green definately has a little build up.

[Jason Blasberg]

Lou,

I'm playing the Black and Red on Wednesday, I'll let you know how the conditions are but I can probably guess they'll at least be a little soggy.  

JKB

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