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Mike_Young

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USGA and AJGA ???
« on: October 13, 2005, 09:41:35 PM »
It seems that much of our attention to USGA matters are centered around equipment issues.  
Well I was in a meeting yesterday and a concern was brought up regarding recent statements by the USGA whereby they have made a statement saying the AJGA is the future of golf and they will be working closely with them.  Seems there are many dangers in this scenario especially since the AJGA is a for profit company.  I had no idea of the issues concerning the AJGA and junior golf.  Seems to be the same old "little league" scenario on steroids.  After listening to concerns it seems there are some legitimate issues with AJGA and junior golf.   Anyone know anymore on this matter.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Michael Moore

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Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 10:13:19 PM »
The American Junior Golf Association is not for profit.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Mike_Young

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Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 10:24:40 PM »
Michael,
You are correct...sorry...but it doesn't seem to be good for junior golf and it has acquired sponsorships from many of the larger companies.  It has become so competitive and expensive....many parents become imerged in it ...sending kids all over the country....the kids are becoming little golf drones with attitudes....I have to admit I had never thought about it until this week and it is an interesting organization.
Mike
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 11:55:45 PM »
Mike,

My son has played a half a dozen and I have no beefs with them.  They try to get kids recognized for college scholarships, and I am told they are the ones the coaches watch.  They video your swing, have a website where you post your results and stats, etc.  They stress manners, and parents being involved, etc.  Most sponsors are golf companies whose executives had a good experience in jr. golf and want to promote it.

You can go all over the country, and Andrew has played in KS, FL and TX.  The cost? Luckily, I have a lot of frequent flier miles....

Not sure about the relationship, but the USGA is no stranger to working with for profit ventures (like clubmakers) and aren't adverse to making a profit on their little golf tourney either.  What issues do you think it raises?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

TEPaul

Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 05:56:27 AM »
MikeY:

This is a very interesting subject and one I need to be more familiar with. The AJGA is actually hurting our Pennsylvania Golf Association presence with our good state junior players(our State Junior Championship) simply because there's so much competition amongst associations and their competitions these days in the junior golf world. It's getting to be a scheduling problem, in other words there's just too much for these good kids to play in today. The AJGA's huge schedule takes away a good number of our young state golfer's time and resources from what we've been doing for them for years.

Although the AJGA may be a "non-profit" association the fact that they need association or tournament sponsors is a telling thing. If this association, like so many of the state and regional associatons, are amateur associations the fact of the need for "sponsors" or tournament "Title Sponsors" is a bit of a sea-change in amateurism and amateur golf in America.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Frankly, I just can't decide. All I know is it's a very different thing from the way amateur golf used to work in the past. On the one hand, we need to sustain these associations if we want to offer golf and competitive golf but to do so any of them have to go where the money to sustain them is. If that's sponsorship by some commercial entity, what are you going to do---turn the money down in the name of some purity over the concept of "amateurism"? On the other hand, something like the "Comcast AJGA Pennsylvania Regional Championship" just sounds pretty odd to me as would the "Comcast Pennsylvania Amateur Championship". But don't laugh, we do consider such a thing simply to better sustain these tournaments today.

When I look at some of these AJGA players, though, particularly the older ones, they sure do look to me like little tour pros---they have all their mannerisms and a very similar "aura".  :) Do most all of these kids play that circuit because they're dreaming of being tour pros someday? You bet your ass they do! Should the AJGA then be sponsored by the PGA of America or even the PGA TOUR?

I would bet that if the AJGA is around in twenty years and doing as well as it is now that over half the players on the PGA TOUR in twenty years would've come up through the AJGA associaton or "system".

You refer to the AJGA as "little league". Maybe the time is quickly coming when it should be more accurately referred to as the "Minor Leagues" for the "BIG SHOW"-----The PGA TOUR!   ;)

TEPaul

Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2005, 06:28:48 AM »
MikeY;

This is a little off the subject but I think pretty historically interesting, not the least reason being I know the guy so well.

The LPGA is only a bit more than fifty years old. The PGA of America is probably only about 85 years old but the PGA TOUR may only be around 35 years old and this guy around here who was my primary Better-Ball partner when I played tournament golf was apparently responible to some degree for the creation of the PGA TOUR.

Here's how. He is a fairly litigious little guy anyway but he was really good in the 1960s as a young amateur around here. So he decided to go play on tour. In those days the "tour" was known as something like "The Tournament Players Division of the PGA of America (The PGA).

So he goes out on that for about a year or two and realizes he's not going to cut it out there so he comes back to Philly and goes to work at PCC (Philadelphia C.C.). He puts his entry in for the Philadelphia Open Championship (run by GAP and the local PGA Section) and is told by the local PGA Section (Philadelphia Section of the PGA of America) that he can't play in the event because he's a "tour" player.

So he tells them that he holds a PGA of America card and they have to let him play. They tell him "no dice" and he says, "Oh yeah, watch this", and he slaps them (PGA of America and its local section) with a massive lawsuit for restraint of trade.

Out of this brouhaha is formed, guess what? The PGA TOUR, a separate entity, and the rest is history.

As a matter of interest they did have to let him play in the Philadelphia Open Championship and he did win it!  ;) Not long after that he submitted his amateur status reinstatment application and became and amateur again, only to elevate himself to the next level by playing in better-ball invitationals with people like Tom Paul.   ;)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 06:31:53 AM by TEPaul »

rjsimper

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Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2005, 12:26:48 PM »
Having been there and done that with the whole AJGA thing, I think it's somewhat evil.

This is not to say that the tournaments are not well run, or are not fun to play in, but it's kind of like Pleasure Island in Pinnochio...

JohnV

Re:USGA and AJGA ???
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2005, 12:34:47 PM »
Tom,
The WPGA also have similar problems with getting juniors to play in our events vs the AJGA.   We certainly aren't adding any junior events anytime soon.  In addition to the AJGA, the local PGA section and a bunch of other groups have events.  Juniors have more to play in during their limited 3 month schedule that adults do all year long.

The AJGA came to town last year at the time of the Williamson Cup (a challange match for juniors between a number of associations) and we tried to get them to move the date by one day in order for some kids to play in both. They wouldn't or couldn't do it.  But there was an upside to that because we had some kids who got to experience the Williamson that probably wouldn't have if the best players in the area were available and they were probably more appreciative of it.

Also, the AJGA made a nice contribution to the WPGA because we supplied the rules officials for their event.

The AJGA website says that 160 players on the PGA Tour and LPGA are AJGA graduates so it is getting pretty near 50% right now.  Of course, they are probably like the Nationwide tour.  If you play one time you are a "graduate".


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