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Pete Buczkowski

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Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« on: October 13, 2005, 03:53:29 PM »
Late next spring I will be departing Fantasyland in Orlando and traveling overseas for the first time to two of my Fantasylands: Paris and London.  I've been doing some searching on courses in the areas and of course there are too many courses for a brief golf itinerary.  Now that I am familiar with the geography and courses (thanks again for the guide Mark Rowlinson!), I thought it would be best to turn to the treehouse for advice.

Here's the skinny:  my non-working time will span about 10 consecutive days.  I'll be stationed in Paris, but want to spend some time in London as well (but no more than 5 days away from Paris).  Since I've never been overseas, I originally thought heading to Scotland or Ireland for a few days was the ticket...but after reading up on the Southeast UK courses I have scrapped that idea.  

One key consideration...my wife will come over for the trip & also has not seen London or Paris, and I still enjoy my marriage! ;)  Let's say that golf will happen 4 or 5 days in that span and the rest will be spent sightseeing...but the golf days can (probably should!) consist of 36 hole days.  She is about a 30 hdcper who could drop a few shots - she would put time into her game - at one time she broke 100 with some regularity but has only played 2 games this summer.  This should be good enough for most, but not all clubs as I understand.

For my experience I would love to see a good mix of links and heathland courses.  I'd like to play some of the more famous courses but they don't all have to be the elites as long as they maintain the unique UK flavor.  Greens fees are a small consideration (we will avoid Wentworth) but most of the other courses seem to have reasonable fees...I think 100£ or less for 1 round and 150£ or less for 2 rounds will do (an exception would be made for special places like Sunningdale).  Lately I have been leaning towards 1-2 days in the southest UK area (try for Rye, Deal, RSG, etc.), 1-2 days on heathland courses (Sunningdale, Walton Heath, etc.), and 1-2 days at courses around Paris (Chantilly, Fontainebleau, Morfontaine if possible, etc.).  What would you all recommend?  I don't have club connections here in the States; its possible some of my coworkers in Paris could work something out but at this point let's assume not.  

Anything that could help on the logistics would be great as well!  Can we do this without renting a car and just taking the trains?  Could we just rent a car for one way between Paris and London and hit the southest UK area with the car, and the others by train?  We are considering flying into one of the cities and flying out of the other to only do the trip once.  Since I have not visited any of these courses previously ease of logistics will be a factor in choosing courses.  How far in advance do I need to write the clubs?  My dates are not firm yet.  Of course I would love to meet up with other GCAers if possible.

Thanks in advance!

Pete

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 04:02:01 PM »
Ditch the wife if your going to do 36 per day. leave her in the city shopping, she'll be much happier.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Paul_Turner

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 04:14:33 PM »
Pete

You'll get lots of responses for London.

So I'll stick with Paris.  NAF and I only saw St Germain and Morfontaine but both are top notch.  St Germain is easy to get on Morfontaine isn't.  Chantilly looks super from the pics I have seen.  Fontainebleau looks spectacular but it is further out.  I did see St Cloud too, which is very nice but a not as good as the above (plus it's more similar to an American park course and likely not different enough for your trip).  Apart from M'taine access is simple for the rest, I think.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Pete Buczkowski

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 04:25:34 PM »
Thanks Paul!  Do you know if St. Germain or Chantilly are available by rail or would we need a car?  At the risk of being labeled a kiss-up...your essay in Paul Daley's GAVIII convinced me to stay in the southern UK for the heathland courses.  ;)

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 04:34:12 PM »
Royal St. Georges, Deal, Rye are all great golf in SE England.

Pete Lavallee

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 04:42:02 PM »
Pete,

My wife and I played quite a few course south of London 2 years ago and had a wonderful time. If you happen to be flying in or out consider using Gatwick, becuase it is much less of a zoo than Heathrow and it is 15 minutes drive from Walton Heath. That is ideal for 36 holes as you can play both the Old and New courses with a nice lunch in between. The price is right also at 85 pounds for a day ticket. Also within a 30 minute drive of Gatwick is Royal Ashdown Forest (see the profile here on GCA) a great bunkerless course that allows outside play on the weekends (most of the London area clubs do not allow weekend play and restrict weekday visitor play till after 10:00 am to allow members play). Of the courses we played I would highly recommend The Addington, Woking and West Sussex in Pulbourough (all profiled here on GCA). Enjoy!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Paul_Turner

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 04:47:24 PM »
Pete

Aw that's nice about my first essay :D

I'm not sure about rail but there are Parisian GCAers who know and I'm sure they'll chime in.

Around London, without busting the bank too badly, the best mix could be: Walton Heath, Addington, West Sussex and St George's Hill
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 04:48:05 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

David_Tepper

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2005, 04:54:25 PM »
Pete -

I would HIGHLY recommend Sunningdale as your heathland golf outing in the London area. Not only are the 36-holes there excellent, but the Sunningdale clubhouse is no more than a quarter of a mile from the Sunningdale village train station. I am pretty sure you can catch a train from central London, with your golf bag in hand (from Paddington station, I believe), that will take you almost to the 1st tee of the courses there.

Almost all the other well known clubs in the London area will require either a car or a train/cab ride.  

DT

Keith Durrant

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2005, 05:05:10 PM »
Mais oui...le train est possible to St Germain et Fontainebleau (with short taxi rides from the station), but I wouldnt try it in rush hour!

I believe Sunningdale connects best into Waterloo.

If you didnt want to hire a car, you could catch the Eurostar down from London to Ashford and then connect across to Sandwich or Deal for 18 holes and then hop back on the train to Paris through the Channel Tunnel!


Sean_A

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2005, 05:17:57 PM »
Pete

Beyond the usual suspects.  I highly reco a game at Royal Blackheath.  True, it is not great golf, but there are some holes of interest.  The club is the oldest in England and owns  a fantastic display of golf memos.  This is no slight on the clubhouse.  It is a grand affair that was built around 1700, maybe 1650.  Come to think of it, it was built by a mate of Charles II soon after The Restoration.  So the date of construction is likely to be about 1665ish.  

In addition, this is one of the friendliest clubs I have ever visited.  Most of the courses around London are a serious hike if you are staying in the centre of the city.  Blackheath is a rare exception.  You can use trains to reach Eltham.  I think trains from Victoria, London Bridge and Charing Cross go to Eltham.  From there it is a short cab ride.  

Also, do not miss The Royal Observatory while in London.  It is a cracker.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Paul_Turner

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 05:26:37 PM »
Echoing Sean.  

Pete, if you want to be a pioneer, try Coombe Hill.   I can't remember anyone reporting on the course here on GCA. It's one of the few Abercromby courses, looks good on the website (even with tarted up bunkers) and merited a high Doak score (6).  Plus I'm curious  ;)
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Sean_A

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 05:43:10 PM »
Keith is right about Eurostar.  It is a very good service between Paris and London.  Best part about it is that you go city center to city centre.  No crazy out of the way airports.  You must be careful about connections from Ashford to Deal/Sandwich.  There are not too many and some can be slow.  However, if you plan it right and don't mind train journeys, you can do the English side without a car for sure.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Keith Durrant

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2005, 01:32:01 AM »
Which clubs would be most suited to ladies-play (25-30 handicap)?

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2005, 03:16:09 AM »
Are Richard Pennell and I the only posters who live in the big smoke?  After an outing at Woking (even better than expected) we are hoping to play West Hill next Friday pm if anyone can join us.

Pete all the recommendations are really solid and nearer the time I would be happy to give you more info re local trains etc, email me with any direct questions you have (don’t all have to be golf related).

If you are looking for 36 holes I wouldn't leave out the Berkshire, again a train and a short taxi ride from Waterloo.  I don't know if you'll get to choose where your accommodation will be but you might want to think about easy links to Waterloo station to see the best of the Heathland courses.

If your trip is in May mid week games will be possible if you can get out of the office at say 3pm.  

Like Sean I can vouch for the friendliness of everyone at Royal Blackheath.  I was driving by when I saw the sign and everyone to a man was wearing plus fours!  The members were genuinely apologetic about not having anyone to show me into the museum.  Let’s meet up and go see the museum. Sean however is the only person I know of who enthuses about the course – a chance to make your own mind up.

Also if you need someone to play 36 holes at Walton Heath let me know.  Its right up there on my must play list.  Hope we can meet up.  HAve a great trip.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 11:24:02 AM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Stuart Hallett

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2005, 07:04:04 AM »
Pete,

For Paris, concentrate on trying to get in at Morfontaine and stay all day to play all 27 holes, for this you definitely need a car. The course is quite near CDG airport and Chantilly so maybe think about a visit the day of an incoming or outgoing flight.

As for St-Germain or Fontainebleau, yes, you can get there by train, but it will be stressful and forget two courses in one day (Paris traffic). You've picked the best courses, so it's just a question of time to fit them all in. Contact me nearer the time and i'll be happy to meet up for a game.


Sean_A

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2005, 07:29:18 AM »
Tony

Philip Gawith lives down in the smoke as well.  Also, Dr. Hiseman lives near Woking.  Coming from a poor country lad, this may as well be the smoke.  

We should plan a game at an interesting venue.  I would like to play West Hill, but I shall be in sand hills country kicking some rebel arse.  I am hoping Big Ed will give me a few shots, jeepers I just looked at the caps this am. and he is a 1!  Guess I will cease with the fire and brimstone.

Ciao

Sean
 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Paul_Turner

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2005, 09:10:51 AM »
I drove through central Paris following Stuart.  Talk about running the gauntlet!
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Richard Pennell

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2005, 10:30:34 AM »
Pete (and Paul Turner) - I highly recommend Coombe Hill, its a great course on an interesting bit of land, and always in great condition if a little too stripey for my taste. The other side of the A3 Royal Wimbledon is superb. Both are fairly near Raynes Park train station - serviced from Waterloo. As a few have already said Woking is as good as Ran's review promises, and Sunningdale and Walton Heath are obvious choices although Sunningdale is pretty expensive I think (£135 ish for 18 i think). Maybe not easy to get to but stunning and great value is Hankley Common, down near Hindhead (maybe an hour by train)

But if you feel like a treat try and get on Swinley Forest. I don't know what it costs but its beautiful and very quiet and traditionally presented. I was seriously looking forward to playing and it was even better than I expected. Yet another course that I might not have played had I not spent so much time on this website!

Cheers

Richard
"The rules committee of the Royal and Ancient are yesterday's men, Jeeves. They simply have to face up to the modern world" Bertie Wooster

Pete Lavallee

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2005, 10:52:48 AM »
Rich,

Would Pete be able to bring his wife to Swinely Forest?
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2005, 11:00:44 AM »
Pete,

There's lots of sensible advice here - and feel free to e-mail me if you want practical help.  There's an occasional poster on GCA, Steve Okula, who is a Super at a pair of courses in the Paris suburbs - his advice would be worth seeking.

It's a nice idea using the trains.  

I'll e-mail you.

Mark.

olivier

Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2005, 01:55:19 PM »
Pete,

look here http://www.transilien.com/FR/RedAMIVI.htm for the train  timetable. To go to Chantilly start from paris-nord (takes around 30 minutes)
to Fontainebleau start from Paris-Lyon (takes around 45 minutes) which beats everything else on wheel.
Then pray you can find a taxi at the station
You can get to Saint Germain using the tube (RER).

Olivier

David_Tepper

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2005, 02:08:24 PM »
Pete -

Keith Durrant is correct. The best train from London to Sunningdale is from Waterloo Station.

If you go to the Sunningdale website, you can find a map that shows just how close the village train station is to the golf club.

DT

Stuart Hallett

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2005, 03:49:00 PM »
I don't understand why everyone is so reluctant to drive around Paris. Trains and taxis, when they are not on strike, are probably as expensive over a few days as a small hire car.

Paul,
I thought that journey went quite smoothly for a Friday evening, and Noel got to Gare du Nord in time, just !

That was your introduction to negotiating round-abouts when choc-a-bloc in the rush hour, next time we'll try Etoile at full speed, much more fun. Paris is actually becoming quite a safe place to drive, there are speed cameras everywhere.

Stuart Hallett

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2005, 04:09:39 PM »
Paul,
Just had a thought. It was actually a week day with reduced public transport services. Voila the reason why traffic was a little congested.

Pete, take note. The french are black belts at striking.

Pete Buczkowski

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Re:Please help me plan my trip...Paris and Southeast UK
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2005, 04:27:15 PM »
All - thanks for the detailed replies!  Further proof of the wealth of resources that exist in this group.  I am leaning towards leaving out the links courses this time around but there's still time to change my mind...would give a reason to go back sooner than later.

While in Paris we are considering hiring a car for the 2 days of golf.  We will be staying with our friends outside of Disneyland Paris so that should alleviate some of the traffic congestion, since we won't take the car downtown.  How far are the mentioned Paris courses from DLP?

Pete

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