[JESII]

I guess the flat answer to your question is yes. A good caddy will add more value to the first time player then the frequent player.

I think the prototypical caddy at a high guest play course should be different from that of a standard club like Rolling Green or HV. The members at HV should be more willing and able to help an inexperienced caddy get up to speed than the members at Pine Valley. The nature of the system at Pine Valley (or any of these other high guest play / caddy mandatory clubs) puts a high demand on the caddy to be a pro. I know many on here have complaints about many of the caddy programs at top flight clubs, but the reality is they should be and usually are very good and most regular club caddies could not cut it at these type places.

[SL_Solow]

Lou. certainly any member has the right to seek policy changes if the club is not a benevolent dictatorship.  But its an interesting position switch; from the policy being a nonstarter for membership to lobbying for a change.  Not a great way for a new member to make friends methinks!  As to the cost of the program being built into the dues structure, I have been a club pres. and sereve on our local golf ass'n board.  In my experience increases in dues face far more resistance than user fees.  I believe your proposal would seriously weaken caddy programs.  For some this would be no loss but in the Chicago area its a great way to play and exposes a lot of kids to golf who wouldn't otherwise have the chance.  It has also provided a lot of them with educational opportunities.  That is why a lot of us are willing to pay the price and why caddy programs are the rule and not the exception at Chicago area private clubs.

[Lou_Duran]

SL,

I am not changing positions at all.  As stated earlier, I would not join a mandatory riding or caddie club with the possible exception of a couple courses (which is moot anyways because I will never be asked).  However, those who do have every right to try to change any policies they consider egregious, subject of course to proper methods and manners.

Even in Chicago, regardless of the history and benevolence of caddie progrmans in the area, it would be curious to have the various memberships vote on mandatory caddies.  My suspicion is that the average member would vote for choice, whereas the influential, heavily involved in golf member would vote with the status quo.  Of course, I could be totally wrong.

By the way, I much prefer user fees, so long as the use is not mandatory.  Ideally, those who see the societal value of a strong caddie program  and enjoy that service should pay for it.

BTW, why not do the same with green fees at private clubs?  Shouldn't the member who plays 100 times annually pay proportionally more than the one who plays 10 times?  Other than tradition, how are caddie fees different than green fees?

BTW2, the notion that poor kids can't go to college without help from rich folks and/or the government is fallacious.  Yours truly, hardly an overgifted blocke, did it with minimal debt and no parental support.

BTW3, not that it is pertinent to the propriety of mandatory caddying (or riding), how many caddie programs today are comprised of high school and college students?  The typical caddie I encounter is an older than college male who is making an excellent per hour wage for cash.  Do you suppose that Uncle Sam is getting his "fair share"?  Are we supporting the underground economy?

SL, I really don't care that much one way or the other about mandatory caddie programs.  Other than that they add unecessary expense to an already costly game and that it is another diminuation of personal liberty, I can live with it.  Getting to play some of the affected courses is an infrequent privilige and the fee is no more than a minor nuisance.  

   

[TEPaul]

"Are we supporting the underground economy?"

Lou:

You bet we are and if the US Government tries (again) to take away the "independent contractor" status of caddying and make it along the lines of club employees they're gonna kill caddying in America as dead as a smelt!

[Bob_Huntley]

Shivas,

I must say that I totally agree with everything you've written.

Half the time it seems as though the inmates(caddies) have taken over the asylum.

Does anyone remember the ghastly site of old golf bags hanging from the trees at CPC. An incoming President put an end to that particular abomination.

I find it hard to comprehend that anyone on this site would be in favor of paying $80.00 a round, especially with his caddie on two bags, were he retired and playing four or five times a week.



Bob

[A_Clay_Man]

Would there be total upheavel if there were a twice a week maximum caddie enforcement rule? Meaning, once a member took a cadie twice in one week, his third round(that week) could be caddy free. There must be very few with this dilema, hopefully someday, I will be one of them.

That way the fortunate SOB who does get to golf Cypress Point five times a week, will still have food on the table at night?

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