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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
The best set of par 3's
« on: September 29, 2005, 04:40:04 PM »
Some courses have a couple of absolutely great 3's and a couple of so so holes.  For the US I am certain that several  courses slightly under the radar have incredible sets of 3's, and there are a few tip top rated courses that have one hole that is a weak link.  For what it is worth, my UK ranking is Rye, St. Annes, and then Woodhall Spa for the best 3's.  One US course in this category is Fresh Meadow.  Obviously, Shinny has an awesome set of 3's.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2005, 04:49:53 PM »
RMD,

I'm surprised that you selected Fresh Meadow with five par 3's.

# 4, # 13 and # 15 are outstanding, but # 7 and # 11 ?

How about Seminole
Montclair
The Knoll
Maidstone
NGLA
The Creek
Piping Rock
Winged Foot West
Hidden Creek
Pine Tree
Boca Rio
Plainfield
Preakness Hills

THuckaby2

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2005, 04:53:30 PM »
Patrick:

Don't most people consider the Eden at NGLA to be relatively weak?  I didn't, but I sure remember that being the prevailing wisdom here.

Same situation occurs at Cypress Point - 15/16/8 all great, 4 not great....

You know, BOTH courses at MPCC have complete sets of world-class par threes.  There's not a weak one-shotter on the property there.

What about Pasatiempo?  Each par three there is pretty damn strong, and there are 5 of them....

Sand Hills sure would seem to qualify....

We've had this topic before.  Someone - not me - needs to dredge it up.

TH
« Last Edit: September 29, 2005, 04:54:02 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Jeff Fortson

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Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2005, 04:55:32 PM »
Riviera?


Jeff F.
#nowhitebelt

Geoffrey Childs

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2005, 04:59:01 PM »
Winged Foot EAST

wsmorrison

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2005, 05:18:17 PM »
Pat,

You need to see more Flynn courses.  When is your education going to continue?  We need to start in Philadelphia and branch out.  Immediately if not sooner.  You are in serious need of learning without a single Flynn course on your list.  I know most will dismiss this as bias but is there a better collection of par 3s by a single architect?  I don't think so.  In some ways his par 3s are the keystone to his designs.

And no Pine Valley?  For shame.

Pine Valley
Merion
Rolling Green
Lehigh
Lancaster
Huntingdon Valley
Philadelphia Country Club
Kittansett
Manufacturers (Thanks Rob)

For the UK, Royal Dornoch is a certain inclusion.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2005, 05:58:02 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2005, 05:21:25 PM »
Wayne

How can you leave Manufacturers off that list????

wsmorrison

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2005, 05:57:40 PM »
Oops.  I will correct that momentarily.  Right you are Rob.  After the Forse/Nagle work is complete, they'll be even better, especially number 6.

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2005, 07:00:36 PM »
Robert:

   I have to disagree with you regarding Shinny. Yes, 11 is all - world in my opinion and MAY be the greatest shorter par 3 in America. However, #2 and #17 are neither compelling, interesting or difficult.

There surely must be another course you can think of with a greater set of par 3s. ::)

   
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Evan_Green

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 07:04:31 PM »
Camargo has a tremendous collection of classic Raynor par 3's including a Short, Eden, Redan and Biarritz. See Ran's writeup on Camargo for photo of the awesome Eden.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2005, 07:53:42 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

I think Sand Hills' par 3's are terrific.
I especially liked # 13 and # 17.

Wayne,

I've only played Kittansett and Lehigh.

I'd disagree with you regarding Pine Valley's par 3's.

With the exception of # 10 aren't they all roughly the same shot, a long iron or a wood.

While they are challenging, there's not much diversity ?

# 3     198
# 5     235
# 14   220

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2005, 09:26:07 PM »
Newport CC

Franklin Hills (Ross)

Brookside (Ross)

Toronto  Golf Club   (Colt)

Lawsonia
« Last Edit: September 30, 2005, 04:40:07 PM by mark chalfant »

wsmorrison

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2005, 09:45:10 PM »
Pat,

You must correct the omissions.  I will be glad to accompany you as you like.  Kittansett and Lehigh are wonderful courses with excellent par 3s.  But your training is not complete.

As to Pine Valley, I think they are all unique and to dismiss three of them as long irons or fairway woods is minimizing the differences.  

#3 is a long green with a lot of back to front slope and internal contours and from the tee it can be a variety of clubs discounting the wind.  Aerial shot required.

#5 is all-world.  These days no more than a 5-wood for most players but the run-up option is there that doesn't exist on 3.  Danger left, right and rear.

#14 is really downhill and plays shorter.  Visually it is nothing like the other par 3s.

Gene Greco,

I do disagree strongly that the other par 3s aren't great at Shinnecock.  I do agree that the 11th is the best short par 3 in America and at least the equal of any I've seen in Scotland, Wales or England.  

#2 may be the weakest of the bunch but only in comparison.  It is a very fine hole with a demanding putting surface and falloffs that make the green play much smaller.  Granted wind makes this hole much harder but it is a great hole in my opinion.

#17 is to me a wonderful hole but many people seem to share your view.  I think the angle from the old rear tee is demanding as is the new championship tee.  I always seem to end up in a bunker, usually right.  But I love this hole and it plays harder than it looks for whatever reason.

By the way, on Friday we all teed it up on the Flynn tee that was obsoleted on the 7th hole.  It makes a HUGE difference with that green.  It is only 7 or 10 paces to the left but you wouldn't believe the difference in playability.  I hit a draw with a 7-iron and held the green.  It wasn't 2004 sunday Open speed but the slight angle change makes a remarkable difference.  Maybe Tom Paul, Craig Disher or Adam Jessie will attest to it.  That tee needs to be put back in order.  Maybe we should start a collection drive  ;)

Gerry B

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2005, 10:03:46 PM »
forgate as i have mentioned in previous threads imho has 4 great ones -eden / reverse redan /short aka horseshoe and biarritz

myopia has 3 great one shotters -

253 yd -with a 220 yd carry over a cross bunker
135 yd -maybe one of the top 5 short one shotters anywhere
190 yd downhill with a green that is tough to hold

nothing wrong with the 4 par 3's at merion either

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2005, 10:50:42 PM »
   Teeth of the Dog - hands (or should I say, gums) down.

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2005, 11:56:14 PM »
Pat -
Do you really include the Creek in that list? I think it has a great set, with the exception of 4, 8 and 17, which are all fairly mundane. If you really think it has one of the best sets, I think 11 is doing a lot of heavy lifting.


Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2005, 08:02:15 AM »
In spite of the Reesification of the bunkers, Sleepy Hollow is a strong addition.  I do not see anything being weak about the 7th and 11th holes at Fresh Meadow.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2005, 06:44:39 AM »
RMD,

I'm surprised that you selected Fresh Meadow with five par 3's.

# 4, # 13 and # 15 are outstanding, but # 7 and # 11 ?

How about Seminole
Montclair
The Knoll
Maidstone
NGLA
The Creek
Piping Rock
Winged Foot West
Hidden Creek
Pine Tree
Boca Rio
Plainfield
Preakness Hills




Pat, et.al.

Tillinghast's greatest collection of MIXED-LENGTH 3's is clearly:

Somerset Hills

Hands down better than 7-8 off Pat's list.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2005, 07:17:38 AM »
Steve Lapper,

Which 7-8 does Somerset Hills come up hands down better ?

As to mixed length Preakness Hills would seem to have the edge.

# 6   180-230    level
# 8   140-160    level
# 16  160-180   slightly uphill
# 18  110-140   downhill

tomgoutman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2005, 02:27:37 PM »
Numbers 3, 5, and 13 at Moselem Springs.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2005, 09:37:35 PM »
Tomgoutman,

   You need to take down at least a couple of those trees on #3 so the bunkers can do their job and we can SEE how good the hole is.What's wrong with the last par three?
AKA Mayday

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2005, 05:05:36 AM »
How bout Burnham & Berrow?  Two look down on the green and two, one of which is the 14th, are uphill.  The 14th is tough as old boots.  

I would also mention Pennard.  Though I am not sure they are great except for #11, which is.  They are all very good.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

McCloskey

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2005, 02:29:22 PM »
Ocean Course at Cabo del Sol has as good as their is, in both style and substance.

Ian Andrew

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2005, 07:32:43 PM »
If it were 3 of 4, it would be Seminole. The 8th just doesn't inspire me, although it fits in well with the variety and yardage of the collection. The collection is excellent.

I'm hard pressed to beat Pine Valley's set of four for variety. I disagree with any of the assesments that the yardages are similar. I find my club selection has been mixed all three times I have had the honour of being there. I find the variety is excellent.

Portmaronack also has a fine set of three fine holes too.

henrye

Re:The best set of par 3's
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2005, 07:43:33 PM »
Banff & Jasper.  There is not a weak one at either course.

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