Underrated AND Unknown

[Kyle Harris]

Any particular courses out there that are both underrated and relatively unknown?

They may be of some good pedigree (I know of quite a few in this category by Cornish, Findlay, or Ross).

Some may think Sand Hills is underrated, and they may be right, but that is hardly "unknown."

Same goes for the other Bethpage courses (Red, especially).

My first nomination is West Shore CC in Harrisburg, PA. Two amateur architects built the course in the 1920s, which plays remarkably like a Ross course with some excellent greens. Gil Hanse did a great restoration of the bunkers and greens a few years back and the 12th hole may have one of the best central bunker complexes I've ever seen. Right up there with 13 at Bethpage Red.

I know Mike Cirba has the names of the architects somewhere.

Any others?

[mike_malone]

 My buddies love to play Centerton in New Jersey. One of the guys , who recently played Baltusrol, felt the greens were in tiptop condition--rivaling that famous course. I don't think "anyone" designed it.

    I think the variety of the layout coupled with the interesting green complexes is outstanding for a course that costs $25 bucks (in the winter when I play there). It also is on very mundane land , but ALL the interest that can be had is used. My friend often comments that there are no houses as well. So, the Pine Valley  effect of solitude can be had for a song.

      The bunkering is used very effectively to create strategy on this flattish terrain. There are even a few interesting uses of trees.

    You may be required to wear jeans there ,but I have gotten by with Dockers.

[George Pazin]

I love my home course, the wonderfully understated North Park Golf Course, a muni about 12 miles north of Pittsburgh. I don't think anyone even knows who designed it (I'm sure somebody does, but no one remembers - it was a WPA project in the 30s, I think). It's a great place to learn the game, and the characters you meet there are an interesting slice of life. And the routing is wonderful, the very definition of a great walk in the park.

Come on out, Kyle - we'll tee it up and you can fix my game.

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kyle Harris,

Boca Rio.

[Brad Tufts]

New England is full of them, I consider myself fortunate to be surrounded.

CC of Greenfield, Beverly Golf & Tennis, Gannon Municipal, President's, Franklin Park, South Shore CC, George Wright, Bass Rocks CC, Rutland CC, Neshobe GC, Penobscot Valley, Portsmouth CC....just to name a few....

[wsmorrison]

Eagles Mere is really unknown.  However, I think they prefer it that way as do many that would appear on such a list.

Fred Ruttenberg mentioned this course on another thread, but I think it generally unknown outside this nuthouse (Fred gets around) and that would be The Country Club in Pepper Pike.  I think CC Scranton falls into this category as well.

[Kyle Harris]

CC Scranton is featured in the latest Philly Golf Magazine. Our own Ian Andrew is mentioned for his restoration work there.

Had no idea it was a Walter Travis course either.

The picture of 11 and 10 are wonderful and the clubhouse seems simply elegant.

[Dan_Callahan]

New England is full of them, I consider myself fortunate to be surrounded.

Brad,

I would add Wyantenuck to that list as well.

[Steve Curry]

Stockbridge Golf Club

[gboring]

Kyle Harris,

Played the CC of Scranton two weeks ago and absolutely loved the layout.  The character of the putting surfaces is outstanding.  They have removed many trees that have really opened the place up.  The bunkers however are far from being Travis originals.  

Greg Boring  

[Jay Cox]

New England is full of them, I consider myself fortunate to be surrounded.

CC of Greenfield, Beverly Golf & Tennis, Gannon Municipal, President's, Franklin Park, South Shore CC, George Wright, Bass Rocks CC, Rutland CC, Neshobe GC, Penobscot Valley, Portsmouth CC....just to name a few....

Brad,
I agree with the premise (New England has lots of fantastic but unknown courses) and many of your examples (George Wright especially, and also Beverly and Portsmouth).  

But Presidents and South Shore?  Really?  I don't think either is better than a 2 on the Doak scale.  

[ChasLawler]

Fincastle Country Club in Bluefield, Virginia...a Dick Wilson original.

Amazing site, fantastic routing, outstanding greens...even great conditioning...arguably the 2nd best course in Virginia behind the Upper Cascades.

On the short side at 6700 yards - par 70. But the options off the tee on each par 4 are endless.

[michael_j_fay]

Teugega Country Club, Rome, New York. Built by Ross with a good deal of hands on (as can well be seen in the greens).

I love Stockbridge Country Club and would personally second George Wright on the list. Wyantenuck and Berkshire Hills also belong along with the front side of Wahconah in Western Mass.

I am fond of the Catawba CC in Hickory, NC and a real sleeper is the Hyde Park Golf Club in Jacksonville, FL. I would also give a solid nod to Highlands CC in Highlands, NC.

Although not an unknown, I personally think that Holston Hills in Knoxville is one of the most underrated courses anywhere. Ditto for Taconic in Williamstown, MA.

[Doug Wright]

Blueberry Hill near Warren in nowhere NW Pennsylvania--on my "hidden gem" list that we did on here years ago. Ferdinand (Fred) Garbin, who worked with Gordon; a well-routed collection of varied holes and fun greens.

Having said that, how can a course be underrated if it's unknown?

[Gerry B]

north of the border:

1)St Thomas - near london, ontario - a few miles from the more famous course -Redtail. The course is a Stanley Thompson gem that was recommended to me by ben dewar. It exceed my expectations. GCA's Ian Andrew recently did some terrific restoration work on the course. Some fantastic holes in a great setting. If it was located in a large US City - would be highly regarded.

2)south of vancouver near blaine, washington is a public course called peace portal - built during prohibition - needs some tlc restoration work -but has some great holes on a great piece of property with numerous elevation changes. The current owners have no clue as to what they have - which is a tragedy. Could be the pacific northwest's answer to shoreacres, bel air, myopia, creek club, 5 farms east, etc.

USA:

1) have not played it but many people whose opinion I respect have great things to say about Charles Alison's Kirtland just outside of Cleveland - true or false?

2) even though many GCA members hold this course in high regard -I am always shocked to hear how many golfers who live in NJ have not heard of or played Forsgate (Banks Course)- yes there are a few average holes -but there are some gems and IMHO as fine a quartet of par 3's as you will find anywhere

[Wayne Freeman]

Two I have played this year:  

            Glen View in of all places Golf, Ill. (just outside Chicago)-  a Flynn course (the original course hosted the Open in 1904).  Great layout although a little on the short side with beautiful willow trees and wildlife-  as pretty a finishing hole as there is anywhere.  The membership numbers in the low 200's and they couldn't care less about ratings or fanfare.  Loved it.
            Somerset- near Minneapolis.  Many of the locals there feel it is better that the name courses (Hazeltine and Interlachen).  A lovely Raynor layout from 1920 with some fabulous holes (some very Yale-like) and impeccable greens.  Used to be highly rated but again has very few members who like to keep everything as it has been all these years.  

[Jack_Marr]

Headfort in Kells, Co. Meath, Ireland.

[Keith Durrant]

Has anyone ever played the short 9 hole holiday course at St Medan in Dumfries and Galloway? I played it on holiday 25 years ago and it seemed such fun back then.

[Sean_A]

For courses over here, I would go with Kington.  

Back home I would go with Grosse Ile and Hunters Ridge.  

Ciao

Sean

[John Shimp]

Palmetto GC in Aiken.  It gets talked about some on this site by a limited number of folks.  Its still pretty low profile in SC.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Is it possible that a course by HS Colt could be both of these?  I will try and get some pictures of Thorndon Park to post.  Considering how stellar his best is it amazing this club is not better known.  It's on wonderful land and has a great routing - only problem, it's in Essex and no one looks to Essex for golf?  Combine this with a visit to Braid's Orsett and you have 2 courses 25 mins apart that fit the above description.

http://www.thorndonparkgolfclub.com/index.html

[Brad Tufts]

Jay,

I will give you So. Shore (Stiles) as a potential dud, as I played it 5-6 yrs. ago in a rainstorm.  I thought the land had relatively good movement, and the greens were small, but in all likelihood, a good 9-12 holes out there aren't worth playing.  

However, President's is a fun course that suffers from being practically adjacent to I-93, and being generally overcrowded.  However, in playing there this year for the first time in 6-8 yrs, I found it to be much better than I remembered.  The greens are in great shape, and they are very,very,very sloped, so much so that even a low handicapper will enjoy the course at 5670, par 70.  The superintendent is slowly revamping the course, hole-by-hole, adding a few bunkers to protect the predominantly wedge-game course, vastly improving a course that was looking very tired.  There are several holes that are great, like the 6th (thread the needle par four with a tough green), 11th (great driveable par four uphill 275ish), 13th (straight uphill par 3 of 195 with a crazy left to right green) and 16th (shortish par five that slopes towards OB for all of its 490 yards).  It was a lesson in why not to disregard every course under 6000 yds.

All-  I'm hoping to hear more of the local favorites in your areas.  Places like Boca Rio, Palmetto, Taconic may be underrated, but I would guess they are known.  For example, I saw the article on Belvedere in Mich. in Links Magazine, which to me looked like an unknown, but it has hosted something like 30 Michigan Amateurs.  We have come up with several good candidates, but there must be many more we can argue for both unknown and underrated.  We could come up with a great database for GCA travelers that wouldn't require access or several Benjamins.  Most cities do not have quite the number of older, historical public-access courses that Boston does (now i'm biased towards anything old, it may be a curse), but I think there are quality options around most major cities.

My best find for me this year was the CC of Greenfield at the intersection of I-91 and route 2 in Mass.  I had never heard anything about it, and it was fantastic.  Stockbridge was a great addition to the list as well.

-Brad

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Kyle,
Lu Lu Temple

The reason why I mention Lu Lu is simply because if it hadn't been for a conversation between Eric Shortz, Geoff Shackelford, Ran Morrissett and myself, sitting at the bar at El Cholo-Santa Monica in 1999, I would have never got to experience this absolutely charming place.

Instead, I insisted on going there to see it when I came to Philadelphia in 2000. It was this feeling of having to see it, and when I did finally get to visit there with the Great Tom Paul, Redanman & Mike Cirba, I was utterly impressed and taken with it the same way I was with Plainfield, another underrated gem that maybe one of the most underrated courses of all-time. The same goes for Lehigh, which it too is underrated.

[JNC Lyon]

Kyle Harris:
I have not played West Shore, but one of my good friends-low handicapper-played it in the US Amateur Qualifier this year. He says it is his favorite course that he has played, and his resume includes Pebble, Pinehurst No. 2, Spyglass, Oak Hill, Monroe, Laurel Valley, Fox Chapel, etc.
I think I read somewhere it was designed by the Gordons.

I agree with Teugega, Favorite set of Ross greens.

Oak Hollow, NC. 1971 Pete Dye muni, On a peninsula in Oak Hollow Lake.

Mill Creek, Rochester, NY. Brand new Paul Albanese design, with some great alternate route holes.

[Steve Curry]

Leatherstocking, Mohawk??

Steve