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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mobile Country Club
« on: June 05, 2003, 08:04:08 PM »
Anybody who says there's no decent golf on the Gulf Coast needs to get down to Mobile AL and play at the recently remodeled Mobile Country Club.  I played there for the first time today and had a really enjoyable round hosted by a member of the club who served on the committee which worked with Ron Forse on the project.

First let me say the club's terrain is interesting unlike a lot of the Gulf Coast which tends to be dead flat (like my Pensacola Country Club).  The clubhouse is on the far east side of the property, which slopes fairly steeply to the west down to a large pond and concrete lined creek.  A few holes then go uphill farther west.  I remarked to my host that it would have been interesting to have one or more of the downhill holes culminate in front to back sloping greens a la Oakmont (similar slope), but the downhill holes had back to front slopes with high rear banks more a la East Lake.  The outstanding feature of the course, which stretches to 6900 yds from the tips but plays somewhat shorter due to a number of downhill holes, is the wildly contoured, interesting greens.  Most of the greens have strong interior contours with several levels and plateaus.  The greens were pretty slow due to recent aeration and would be much more difficult if faster.  I still managed to eake out a few three putts.

The course was originally built by a Scottish pro around the turn of the century.  In the mid 1920's, Donald Ross was hired to improve the course.  How much time he spent on site is not known for sure.  In the 1970's, Hurricane Frederick wiped out most of the back nine trees and Willard Byrd was brought in primarily to redo the back nine.  The resulting dichotomy of Ross-like front nine and Byrd back nine eventually resulted in the hiring of Ron Forse to restore the course to a classical style.  Return to the original Donald Ross layout and contours etc was not a mandate, but Forse was requested to create a  layout which represented classical design elements.  Ron Forse has done this, as there are good chipping areas around most greens, and outstanding deep fairway bunkers which are really in play on most every hole.  There are also classic design features which are as much Raynor as Ross.  # 3 is a lengthy downhill par 4 which has a double plateau green of sorts, with a steep ridge in the middle of the green running front to back which creates a plateau on each side.  # 6 is probably my favorite hole, a 360 yd uphill dogleg right around a stern pair of diagonally placed, rather deep fairway bunkers with a creek on the left which is quite reachable with a "safe" bailout left which is overcooked.  Good hole!  #7 is a 510 yd par 5 down hill with a very deep (60 yd) Biarritz green.  # 8 is an excellent Redan with a beautiful deep front bunker.  #9 is a lengthy par 4 back uphjill to the clubhouse with a new very deep bunker on the left side of the green and a trough down the center of the front of the large green.  With the pin up on the narrow left side of the trough and the deep bunker left, this was an intimidating approach!  The illusion makes it look tougher than it is, however, as the trough didn't extend back as far as the pin.  A long iron to the right side of the green would have yielded a pretty simple two putt.

The back nine was excellent too but not as many classical features.  The golf course is challenging and fun and one which I think anyone would enjoy playing all the time.  One fun element which came into play several times was steep slopes at the sides of the greens.  If you were able to play away from the pins to those slopes, interesting bounces and rolls off the slopes resulted in close approaches!  For example my host played a short iron 15' behind the 18th pin, set in the center of three tiers, and the ball backed up to gimme range.  

The downside of those steep slopes is the only element of the Forse design work which may be adjusted:  some slopes at green edges are so steep that the Tifeagle turf is very weak.  Possible adjustments including grading to less slope and regrassing, or allowing the green cut to grow to "froghair" length.  

All in all a really fun course.  There are about as many Ross elements left here as at East Lake in Atlanta, and a whole lot of interesting design in classical Ross/Raynor style by Ron Forse.  It was great playing with a member of the committee which organized and coordinated this work and getting some insight into the process.  I'm looking forward to my next visit in the fall, when maybe it will be cool enough to walk (not today!).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2003, 05:11:03 AM »
Great review.

I had heard that Mobile CC was redoing its course. Glad to hear it turned out well. I'll add it to my list of courses to try to get to when I am down that way.

Any word on the old Ross course at the resort (I forget its name) south of Mobile? I think it is on Mobile Bay.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2003, 08:07:53 AM »
Bob, I'm not sure which course you are referring to.  Maybe Grand Bay which is part of Marriott's resort property on the east side of Mobile Bay?

Let me know when you are coming down this way and I'll get with you at Mobile CC.  It was fun playing with the member who worked with Forse on the redo, he gave me good insight into the process there.  This was funny, I went over to play with one of my clients and our host is a major vendor for both of us.  Imagine my surprise when he turned out to be involved with the remodeling project.  I have given him the GCA web address and hope he gets involved.

One distinction I hope I made in my review is that there was no real attempt by the committee or designer to restore the Donald Ross course.  The plan was to remodel (not renovate or restore) with the goal of building a new course utilizing modern technology in irrigation, drainage, etc, with classical motifs -- chipping areas, classical MacDonald/Raynor holes (Biarritz green, Redan hole), in order to build an extremely interesting course with little earthwork.  IMHO, mission accomplished.  I heard, perhaps third hand, that Brad Klein feels Mobile CC should be in the top 100 classical courses as a result of the remodelling.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2003, 08:41:11 AM »
Bill -

I accept your kind offer.

Yes, it was The Grand Bay I had in mind. I think it was once privately owned. It had a low-key, Sea Island/Cloister feel to it. A beautiful place. Live oaks, views of the Bay, the whole bit. This was years ago, however. I never played the course but was under the impression that it was an old Ross hidden gem.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2003, 09:34:47 AM »
Bob, I haven't played Grand Bay yet either but need to.  Let me know when you think you'll be down this way -- my travel is crazy this year with Cuscowilla in Oct and New Mexico in September!   8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

michael_j_fay

Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2003, 06:13:05 PM »
Bill McBride:

Thanks for the low down on Mobile. I visited there before Forse did his work, reviewed the plans with the Supintendent and played the course.

How did Forse deal with the storm drains?

I would like to use your report on the Donald Ross Society website. Could you email me at mjfay@attbi.com

Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2003, 08:28:38 PM »
Michael, email sent.  I hope my enthusiasm for the work done by Ron Forse and the course in general came through loud and clear.  Mobile CC is one of those fun courses where you'd love to be a member; it would be interesting, challenging and varied to play year around.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rick_True

Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2003, 05:01:19 PM »
Bill, thanks for the kind words and thanks for turning me on to this site, it is really neat.  The other course you guys were talking about is Lakewood Golf Club at the Grand Hotel in Point Clear.  It is not a Ross course, it now has two 18's, the original course is a Perry Maxwell design.  A Shell's Wonderfull  World of Golf was held there.  They have since added a third nine, then hired Ron Garl to add another nine and actually split the Maxwell course up where parts of it are in both 18's.  They are now reworking one 18 and when that is complete, they will do the other.  It is owned by a new group and financed by the retirement systems of Alabama, they own the Robert Trent Jones Trail.  The Maxwell 18 is a really good golf course but has not been kept in good condition in recent years and has a lot of huge oaks that encroach on the playability of the routing.  Hopefully they will address these issues with the new work.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2003, 05:41:43 PM »
Rick, welcome to GCA!  Glad to see you post and hope you will enjoy the good aspects of the site and ignore the occasional rantings and ravings.

Rick True is the member of CC of Mobile referred to in my report above about the great work done by Ron Forse there. I'm sure he would be happy to respond to any questions about the process of their remodeling and the objectives they were pursuing.  (He's also a strong player, by the way, we won $5 in our match against our fellow competitors!)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2003, 06:48:01 PM »
McBride
Great job on the review and info.  Of course playing with "Rick True" undoubtedly helped.

Rick True

About 15 years ago, on behalf of a management firm, I looked at the municipal course in Mobile.  I thought it had great potential except for the area's low green fees.  Was it a Ross course?  Who is running it and how are they doing?  Also what is your real name? ha ha.
Forse is a fun guy to be around.  I am glad to hear things turned out well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Rick_True

Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2003, 07:30:12 PM »
Lynn, it is not a Ross course, don't know who did it.  It is now run by the City of Mobile.  They rebuilt the greens about 5 years ago and it is in the best condition it has ever been in.  It's quite a bargain at around $20 including cart.  I agree, Ron Forse is fun to be around, he is a terrific guy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mobile Country Club
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2003, 07:37:54 PM »
Aah Rick, this is a sad thing.  You're already a GCA junkie, hanging around checking it out at 9:30 pm where there's lots of better things you could be doing!  :o  And I can't believe Lynn Shackleford thinks you're a pseudonym!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »