Is our super doing the right thing?

[Tim Taylor]

First off, let me say that I ask this in an open spirit of learning and am not looking to discredit our super or any supers.

Our club (Hidden Creek in Reston, VA) has held up pretty well through the tough mid-Atlantic summer. The greens are, well, green and to the untrained eye appear healthy. They're firmer than usual and rolling nicely. I didn't notice any areas that looked (again, untrained eye) stressed or diseased. Other folks I've played with recently have said that some clubs in the area, including some of the higher profile ones, have not fared so well.

Our fairways are patchy brown. Some of it appears to be grass that has just browned out like my front yard In other areas it appears that grass has given way to that sludgy black stuff.

The rough is also very patchy with some areas thick and healthy and other areas very thin and patchy.

My question - in general terms, has our super done the right thing by focusing on the greens? It's been my experience that cool season grasses usually bounce back once the heat and humidity dies down and the rain comes.

TimT

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tim,

Let me see if I understand this.

You're asking a group of Non-professionals to evaluate the agronomic conditions and agronomic practices on a golf course that they've never seen.  Is that correct ?

If so, might I suggest that you address your inquiry to Tom MacWood, the resident expert on golf courses he's never seen.  

Have you had DIRECT conversations with your superintendent ?

Have you had them in the presence of other green committee or board members ?

[Tim Taylor]

Hey Patrick,

I see what you're saying. Maybe the better thing would have been to post what I'm seeing at my course and see how others are holding up.

And, of course, I am *totally* speculating that our super has "chosen" to take care of the greens at the expense of the rest of the course. It would seem to me to be the prudent thing to do. But hell, that's why I sell software for a living

The brown patches don't bother me. I like to see the ball bounce around once in a while. I've heard some other members complaining. I tried explaining that this is what happens in this area with the weather we've had. Falls on deaf ears. Folks seem to forget that a golf course is a living, breathing thing.

No, I havent' spoken to our super. I should. And I should tell him that I think he's done a damn fine job given the summer we've had.

TimT

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tim,
  As of late, Pat seems to want to take pop shots at Tom MacWood everytime he gets a chance. In reality, we all have come to this dicussion site to do just that-base opinions and discuss things we see, and much of it is just that. Do some people know more than others? Yes. Do each and everyone of us learn from eachother? Yes. Is everything statedon this website 100% factual-No, some is, but some is hersay. Tom MacWood brings alot to this discussion group, I know I've learned alot, but it seems as though there are certain individuals that just have it out for others, and to that, it's disappointing.
  As far as your question goes, my OPINION is greens come first and that is what most superintendents are judged on. That's what most course are judged on-That's what most members and guests remember-how smooth were the greens, how fast were they....according to what you started, and my understanding of the weather conditions in the Mid-Atlantic, he's doing the right thing, but that's just MY OPINION.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Patrick_Mucci]

Anthony Nysse,

Worry about yourself.

Tom MacWood's a big boy and can take care of himself.
He doesn't need you to protect him.

I added a "smiley face".  The same kind that Tom MacWood added when he was kidding me about football and golf history.

I'm shocked that you didn't take exception to Tim's exercise or potential witch hunt, especially since you're in the business and "at risk" with respect to the whims of the membership and the conditions at your golf course.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Pat-
  I did say that I felt he was doing the right thing. After hearing many horror stories from this season (As we've had our own to deal with) I feel he's doing the right thing. Greens maintenance is the number one thing in every budget-That's where labor, time, fungicides and fert go to more than any other-my guess would be, knowing that takes up the biggest chunk of time and money, wouldn't a membership expect that to be the best? As most people on this site, I don't mind the fairways and rough a little brown, even a bit thin in the rough. But most memberships have no tolerance for that on putting surfaces. If I had to face the summer that many have had in the Mid-Atlantic, I would have put much of my energy into greens if I was unable to save it all, which many have been unable to. The re-seeding of several fairways spots goes over a lot better than having to re-seed greens or even playing on temporary greens. As stated before-This is my opinion based on my experiences. I think that Tim's super is doing the right thing. At least he didn't have to close the course like many of the bigger name clubs have had to do-It's just been one of those years that has hurt many, many clubs. It is only my hope that many memberships see how difficult a year it has been and have an understanding that much of it was not the negligence of their super, but many things out of their control. A lot of very respected, very good supers have gotten hurt this year.  

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Tim Taylor]

Pat, I'm assuming you had tongue planted in cheek when you referred to me "potential witch hunt". After all, I had just stated that I would tell our super that he's done a fine job.

I had an interesting discussion with a new member while playing a few holes last night. We agreed that the course was fun to play when it was this firm. I commented that I had hit a 9 iron into our 473 yard par 4 4th and a 5 iron into the 550 yard 5th hole. And he replied by saying that he had bounced and rolled into trouble spots he'd never seen before. We had a good laugh and agreed that it's a different course when it's hard and fast.

TimT

[Brad Klein]

Hey Tim, don't worry, about the occasional muggers who show up here. Some just are bullies looking for a fight for its own sake.

Rather than proceed agronomically in the blind, let's investigate your place from a management standpoint. Are there maintenance guidelines? How well does the superintendent (I assume it's Steven A. Nash, CGCS) know the place and for how long has he been there? Does he know you are posting and would he feel comfortable knowing that - or is this going behind his back, in which case he'll find out real soon anyway. Do you have an informed green committee? Regular visits by the USGA Green Section or some other independent consultant? What sort of budget and labor does Mr. Nash have and who is responsible for setting those levels?

You always run the risk on this Website of stepping into buried landmines, but the way you've posed the initial question is really inviting an attack.

[A_Clay_Man]

I had a super the other day, ask ME, if I had ever seen any other courses do, what he was doing. (Eradicating the Poa Triv)

I could only default to the sage advice of that greatest of human beings Pete "Ace" Galea, and encouraged him that his practice was sound, because it showed diligence.

[igrowgrass]

You compared your clubs greens versus other clubs.  And people have said that they are better then others in the area.
How would you compare the fairways of other clubs?  Are they same?better?worse?  
If your going to compare greens to greens, why not compare fairways to fairways?

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

   THANK YOU Brad!

   Tim - I worked 17 years in the metro DC area and I can tell you as a Superintendent that it is an awful place to grow grass for a living. Steve Nash has been in doing what he does for your club for longer than that and I encourage you to get a hold of him and take a ride with him aroung your course. He is a nice guy and I am sure he would love to do it.