[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
Far be it from be to jump off the bandwagon I know, and even though I really haven't, I still try to watch or listen most of, if not all of, every game. I also think as punishment for doing so, I'll go play La Habra-Westridge and try to like it! (Without doubt one of the worst golf courses ever built)

That being, I walked out in disgust last night when it was obvious to even me that the Dodgers pitcher, DJ Houltan was finished. This somehow got past Dodger manager, Jim Tracy, who on TV motioned to let him face one more batter with bases loaded--knowing that Houltan had already thrown 111 pitches. That next batter hit a Grand Salami that went about half-way up into the left field pavillion.

Not a lot to be excited about here in Dodger land, except, we have a very talented group of young guys who I predict will eventually make there way up and prove themselves in the next few years.

Once they fire Jim Tracy, Hep Sop Choi might get a chance to finally prove himself at 1st; Antonio Perez looks like he's going to be a very good player@ 2nd; Cesar Izturis, one of the best SS in baseball will be back from TJ surgery; Oscar Robles looks to be a really good SS/2nd baseman who can play back-up and adding further depth, if he isn't a starter like he is already; Willie Aybar looks like he'll be better then Beltre was at 3rd; Behind the plate, Dioner Navarro is going to be a very good catcher that can also hit (thanks Yankees! A complete blunder to have traded him.); The outfield looks to be a real amalgamation of free agents and rookies who will be able to hit the ball, as well as catch it and throw it. Jason Repko and Jason Werth both have guns for arms, and when they make contact...... I really like Jose Cruz Jr. to. In fact, I thought at the time he was picked-up, a really good aquisition. Jeff Kent is still Jeff Kent, and he's awesome, but he'll be gone in another year and on his way to Cooperstown.

Now if we could just find a way to get rid of the owner!

[THuckaby2]

Tommy:

I watched last night's game on TV.  Eric Karros (don't get me started about getting the least out of decent stats in the history of the game) actually was very insightful about that Houlton issue in the 5th inning.  I concur with his take, which was this:  the decision wasn't so easy for Tracy.  You had here a young pitcher who is coming along well, and who in several recent starts deserved wins but didn't get them due to lack of run support.  He was one batter away from getting the mandatory 5 innings to get the W.  Yes he was laboring, and the pitch count was very high.  But it's not like he was staring at Barry Bonds coming to the plate... and he still looked to have at least some gas in the tank.  Of course if that's a veteran and the W doesn't mean so much, he's gone... But man a W is going to mean a lot for this kid's confidence... and taking him out so close to such could be shattering to such.... OK one more batter, that's it, one more chance... then bingo.

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback.  A milimeter different and that guy pops it up, inning over, Houlton gets his W, who knows what flows from that.

I have no issues with Tracy - not last night, not ever.  He gets the most out of his players, and I've yet to see a game decision that he's blatantly blown.  I'm sure such do exist.

But my point is Tracy is not our problem.  The glorified AAA lineup they've put out this year is.  I mean please, yes I concur with your assessments of the POTENTIAL of all these players and how good they might BECOME.  But we're talking one of the richest teams in baseball... our lineup should NEVER be like this.

Yes, injuries have killed us this year.  But so have some very questionable moves by DePodesta.

BTW, Hee Sop Overrated Never Done Anything is not our answer at first, nor is Olmedo "great but damn he must be 55 years old" Saenz or the out of position Jason Phillips.  That's a hole that needs fixing in the off-season.  Also, don't count on Izturis coming back soon - he damn well might miss most if not all of 2006!  So there's another hole... but we're deep in young infielders as you say so that one's OK.

Gagne's the question mark.  Will he be what he was?

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

Man...I see my posts have generated much lively, detailed discussion about the Padres.  

I see that coming here as a San Diego Padres fan brings about the same degree of friendly support as if I had come here and declared that Lakota Canyon is in the Top 10 golf courses in the country*!  

*vainly tying this thread into golf course architecture

[THuckaby2]

Mike - it's not that at all.

The issue here is more like me saying Santa Teresa is a great course.  To which the response is "OK sure" from the 5 guys here who might have played it, yawns and clicks to the next topic from the other 1495 who could care less.

That's the Pads.

The list of die-hard Padres fans I have met in my life has doubled this morning upon reading your post.  I've lived in CA my whole life.  That ought to be 'nuff said.

The Padres are irrelevant.  

 

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike - it's not that at all.

The issue here is more like me saying Santa Teresa is a great course.  To which the response is "OK sure" from the 5 guys here who might have played it, yawns and clicks to the next topic from the other 1495 who could care less.

That's the Pads.

The list of die-hard Padres fans I have met in my life has doubled this morning upon reading your post.  I've lived in CA my whole life.  That ought to be 'nuff said.

The Padres are irrelevant.  

 

Tom,

That's exactly it!  I think we're making the same point.

There has to be a support group somewhere for Padres fans, but I bet there might only be 3-4 people there, and one guy is delusional and ended up in the wrong place.  

For some strange, masochistic reason, I now like them even more and I'm prouder than ever to be a fan of what might be the most ignominious franchise in the history of sport!  

[THuckaby2]

Well good on you.  (I like typing and saying that, makes me feel like an Aussie).  All of this should make you a stronger fan.  Think how cool it will be when (if?) the day comes that the Pads are on top... you can tell all the bandwagonneers then to blow themselves.  

I just saw "Lakota Canyon", hearkened back to the heated posts about that, and missed the point.  But you're right - the talk there was more about the PEOPLE than the golf course.  So your comparison is apt... a course that only 5-6 people have indeed ever seen is just like the Padres!

But they are gonna win it.  Last night killed the Dodgers.  The Giants don't have the pitching to go 14-3 the rest of the way, as is going to be required.

Of course one never knows and I am not giving up... but the Pads solidified things yesterday.  GREAT win by them, btw.

Then in the playoffs anything can happen... Peavy pitching twice each series... you never know... remember the 1988 Dodgers.

TH

[Mike Benham]

Now if we could just find a way to get rid of the owner!

Do any of you miss the day when baseball teams (any sports franchises for that matter ...) were owned by families and not by corporations, investment groups, movie moguls or news industry conglomerates?  


Tangent alert - The NFL is the most successful sports industry, billions of dollars of TV money but has anyone taken the time to see the product on the field?  Absolute crap!!!  The best football  players, coaches and teams in the world and many teams look like they have never played the game before ... 16 rushing attempts for 24 yards, 9 for 21 with 70 yards passing ... the league is all about hype, before the season, during each week up to gametime, prior to the Super Bowl ... very few times does the actual product come close to the hype ...

[THuckaby2]

1.  God yes I miss the O'Malleys... there was a time one could be very proud to be a Dodger fan, as we had the cleanest, best-run franchise in baseball.  They grew from the farm system, shunned free agents for a long time, were darn near always good, prices were cheap, oh don't get me started.  That all ended when the O'Malley's sold.  The franchise now would be the laughing stock of the league, if there weren't so many other screwed up franchises!

2.  Right on re football.  I just can't figure out why it is this way.  Can't be dilution of talent... there are not many more teams today that in any prior glory day....

TH

[ForkaB]

Tom

I don't watch much gridiron (American football to you ex-Colonials.... ) these days, but when I do, my defense of the sport to my limey friends has been something to the effect of:

The skills of the players has overgrown the size of the playing field, so it looks constrained and boring because these guys are just too good!

Kinda like basketball, come to think of it, or even golf??

What think ye?

[Andy_Lipschultz]

Mike Cirba: Randy Jones was the junk throwing lefty. He, the possessor of the largest 'fro of any white man.

Peter O'Malley most likely would have held on to the Dodgers if he was allowed to build the football stadium he wanted to build in the parking lot of the stadium. Can't remember if it was the city council or the Coliseum Commission that screwed him

[Mike Benham]

Rihc -

The correlation to football and futbol is actually the issue at hand.      American football, unlike baseball and basketball, has the advantage of playing one game a week, at the same time, on the same day which leaves a product that is produced 18-18 times a year.  All the time in between, whether it is the analysts on TV, radio and newspapers, the bookies and sports books in Vegas, or talk around the water cooler, to focus on the could of's, and should of's from the prior week's game and the what's going to happen the next.

Baseball has a game everyday, tough for the fan to get all hyped about todays game when there was one last night and another tomorrow, especially if you are going to analyze or handicap a game.

The NFL has evolved into an event each week and for the most part the game is secondary ...

[THuckaby2]

Wow, both Rich and Mike are right.

Rich - great point - the players are too big and too strong for the playing field, and the correlation to basketball is strong.  The only difference is that in hoops, they are so good they can't really guard each other, thus the high-scoring games and/or thuggery used to prevent such.  In our football, they have to keep changing the rules to give the offenses a chance to score.  In both sports the results aren't pretty these days.  The golf analogy works also...

Mike - right on re the "event" status of NFL.  But man it has to be... those guys need recovery time from the physical beating they take.

And Andy, however it went down, it was a sad day when the O'Malleys sold.  And I don't say this because both Mike and I know family members from our common college connection.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike Benham,
I know someone who was close with the O'Malley's.....

Huck,
IMHO, This years team, never had a chance. It looked like it was going to be a injury prone year before Spring Training even started. Mike Benham will confirm I told him this earlier this year. The 12-2 run was nothing more then a early season fluke. As in the past, Baseball is a LONG-LONG season. (I know you know that)

It was announced last night that J.D. Drew is going to need two, maybe three more operations. One for a freyed labrum, and the other for the wrist problems he has occured since getting it broken 82 games into the season.

The tapes were released last night about Milton Bradley's off-field problems, and it's obvious that he is both in need of mental help and is a target of the media. Even worse, is that the Dodgers will let him walk at the end of the season with little if no compensation in return.

Ceasar Izturis, last year's Golden Glove SS is having Tommy John surgery this next week. It will keep him out until next July.

Eric Gagne is out until next July, if he'll even be effective when he comes back.

Ricky Ledee, an excellent fill-in this season is hurting big time, and will probably need surgery after the season.

Jose Valentin, who started off like a house afire, never really ever recovered from the freek knee injury a month into the season. Not that he was going to make a huge difference.

But I really threw in the towel in May, about five minutes before fellow Dodger/Pirate fanatic, one John VanderBorght asked if I was going to turn my Dodger logo upside down again after they started going into the tank. All of this is the real reason why I like seeing the young guys play. Some of them are really going to be good. Expect to see more of that as Moneyball is further instituted by our "brilliant" and "very smart" GM, Paul DeStupida. (a "Ha-Vid" grad)

I think he's making some good moves for the future, but I also don't think he'll be there to see the success from those moves. This dip stick owner will send him packing soon enough. I also find it ironic that he was allowed to buy the Dodgers with no money. I suspect Bud Selig helped him acheive this.

[THuckaby2]

Tommy:

I concur with all of that.  See my questioning of DePodesta at the end of my post to you.

Where I seem to differ from you is believe Tracy is doing as good a job as can be expected with this mess.  In fact I think he's one of the better managers in the league.  In a previous post you advocated his firing....

I guess we also differ in that I NEVER give up.  No matter how horribly they are run, no matter how many injuries, they are my Dodgers and my blood color does not change.  Oh, I too had no high hopes for this season, and I too knew the early 12-2 was smoke and mirrors.  I just don't give up until we're mathematically eliminated.  So sure, they suck, but they're ours, man!

And Mike Benham and I know several people VERY close to the O'Malleys... a whole family of them went to SCU.  My mom also taught a few of them in high school.  Seidler family.  That name ought to ring a bell.

 

[Mike Hendren]

Maybe they should put them all in a re-constitued Pacific League and bring the major league franchises back to Harlem and Brooklyn, where they have always belonged........

Rich,

None other than the Nashville Sounds hold a 2-0 lead in the best of five series with Tacoma for the Pacific Coast League crown.  Bring on the left-coasters.  If they object to the playing of the National Anthem on constitutional grounds, we'll just distribute bobble-head Moses figures to rub it in.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050621/SPORTS0401/506210365/1002

Mike

[Mike Benham]

Maybe they should put them all in a re-constitued Pacific League and bring the major league franchises back to Harlem and Brooklyn, where they have always belonged........

I'm sure that Steinbrenner and the Yes Network would be happy to split up their market share ...

[Mike_Golden]

BWAA, BWAA, BWAA

The people of Brooklyn weep crocodile tears over the Dodgers horrible season and the 'loss' of the O'Malleys.

[Dan King]

Baseball hasn't never been the same since they started adding wild cards, interleague play and all that. I'd like to think I'd get excited if someday the Giants were to win the whole thing, but I won't know until some future date when it happens.

I used to wear a shirt to Candlestick with this pic on it  that said Juan knew how to treat dodger blue


Dan King

What's my opinion of Kingman's performance!? What the F--- do you think is my opinion of it? I think it was F---ING HORSES---. Put that in, I don't F---ING care. Opinion of his performance!!? Jesus Christ, he beat us with three F---ING home runs! What the F--- do you mean, 'What is my opinion of his performance?' How could you ask me a question like that, 'What is my opinion of his performance?' S---, he hit three home runs! F---. I'm F---ING pissed off to lose the F---ING game. And you ask me my opinion of his performance! S---. That's a tough question to ask me, isn't it? 'What is my opinion of his performance?'
  -- Tommy Lasorda in 1976, in response to a question from reporter Paul Olden about slugger Dave Kingman's hitting of three home runs during a June 4, 1976 11-0 victory by the Mets over the Dodgers

 

[THuckaby2]

Brooklyn?  They haven't had a team in my lifetime.  I fail to see the relevance.  

And no one weeps for the Dodgers, past or present.  That's kinda one of the joys of being a fan.  I'm sure Yankee fans understand this perfectly.  Celtics.  Lakers.   You know, long-term successful franchises.  It's no surprise that Giant fans have no clue.  

Dan K. - love the shirt, love the quote.  

 

[Bill_McBride]

Do any Giants-Dodgers rivalry fans remember Danny Kaye singing a song about the games with the refrain about "The Hiller Haller Miller Hallelujah Twist!"  I think that's how it went.  

"Will bunts.  Haller throws to Hiller, safe at first.  Gilliam bunts.  Haller throws to Hiller, Hiller throws to Miller, safe at first.  Willie Davis bunts, etc etc. That's the Hiller Haller Miller Hallelujah Twist."

I vividly remember going to a game at Candlestick mid 60's.  The above scenario actually played out.  The Dodgers scored 3 runs top of the first without hitting a ball out of the infield.  Maury Wills is still my all time favorite baseball player, which is a lot for a lifelong Giant fan to admit.

[Mike Benham]

I'm sure Yankee fans understand this perfectly.  Celtics.  Lakers.   You know, long-term successful franchises.  It's no surprise that Giant fans have no clue.  

Yes, but the white wine sipping 49ers do, as do the Raidahs ... Rams ... oh yeah, they moved ...

[THuckaby2]

Wrong-oh, buckaroo.  I almost put the 49ers in there, but then thought better of it and inserted the modifier "long-term" for a reason.  49er fans enjoyed a decade or so of joy and now are back to reality.  No one hates or envies or gives crap to the Niners... oh sure we did in the 80s, but that's a long time ago.

DALLAS is the pro football team that works here.  America's team.  Also America's most hated.  And sorry George, no Pittsburgh.  The 70s were a long time ago.

But to throw Tommy a bone, the patron saint of all of this is Notre Dame.  

People hate the Raiders for reasons going way beyond envy.  

[Dan King]

Tom Huckaby writes:
49er fans enjoyed a decade or so of joy and now are back to reality.  No one hates or envies or gives crap to the Niners... oh sure we did in the 80s, but that's a long time ago.

Better to be proud of almost covering a 10½-point spread against the Steelers at a home Super Bowl game.

I miss Ray Malavasi. I always thought Georgia should have made him coach for life.

Dan King

"I hate these people (the Rams and their owner, Georgia Frontiere) for what they did, taking the Rams logo with them when they moved to St. Louis. That logo belonged to Southern California."
 --Fred Dryer

[THuckaby2]

Dan:  oh heck yeah, the Niners have it all over my former, late, beloved Los Angeles Rams.  And right on re Ray Malavasi - he should have been made a saint long ago.  Of course given Georgia is the female version of Satan, well it's not hard to understand why he only lasted so long.

 

I knew I was always right in idolizing Fred Dreyer.  

[Ken_Cotner]

Do any Giants-Dodgers rivalry fans remember Danny Kaye singing a song about the games with the refrain about "The Hiller Haller Miller Hallelujah Twist!"  I think that's how it went.  

"Will bunts.  Haller throws to Hiller, safe at first.  Gilliam bunts.  Haller throws to Hiller, Hiller throws to Miller, safe at first.  Willie Davis bunts, etc etc. That's the Hiller Haller Miller Hallelujah Twist."

No, but for John VB and George P and other Pirates' fans out there, I present Chuck Brodsky's "Dock Ellis's No-No".  Wonderfully detailed song on a surprisingly good album called "The Baseball Ballads".  www.chuckbrodsky.com

GCA content:  Chuck lives in Asheville, home of a couple good Donald Ross courses.

Ken

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