[Tim Gavrich]

I'm a member of a Geoffrey Cornish-designed club (Hop Meadow CC in Simsbury, CT).  I'm curious as to anyone's thoughts on his work, especially in CT.  It seems he liked designing longer courses (Hop Meadow has 3 par 4s over 450 and another at 442) with bigger, canted greens (most from back to front).  At Hop Meadow, at least, the bunkers are pretty benign and relatively unimaginative.  They do seem to test a pretty full compliment of shots.

Thoughts?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tim,

Not that outside opinions aren't valuble, but since Geoff is a fairly prolific writer, mostly in conjunction with the now deceased Robert Muir Graves, I suspect you could learn as much from his books as from other opinions here as to his design thoughts.  

He is known as a very practical architect, always working to a budget, and on some very difficult sites,I think, and in many ways typical of his generation who were their prime in the 60-80's. He is also a great gentleman, which may or may not come out in his writings.

[Brad Klein]

Hop Meadow is 7 miles from my house, and it's home to one of the best golf teachers in the state, Kenny Doyle. Great sense of the open land there, esp. on the holes up top (4-8; 11-15). I think it suffers somewhat because of the location of the clubhouse below and the routing decision to traverse up and down that massive hill on both nines. Once would have been fine; twice is too much.

Over the years, the course has gotten revised in important ways, most recently by Bill Love, who helped give it a softer, more native feel

I don't always think that Mr. Cornish's extensive knowledge of golf course architecture history has translated well into the ground. His work renovation work (never "restoration) t/o New England on classic courses never looked very classic, and even many of his modern works are simple w/o a lot of charm or interest and often with just the touch of oddity that would drive a golfer nuts - like sharp doglegs, trees in the middle of holes, and vast greens and bunkers w/o much definition. I used to play more of his courses, but haven't played one now in 15 years, other than Hop Meadow very occasionally.

Still, I love talking with Mr. Cornish, he's a New England treasure.

[ForkaB]

I predominantly played Cornish's two Stow Acres courses in the 1973-76 period.  the South was quirkier and got more kudos, but the North was much better (in my ridiculoulsy uneducated at the time opinion--IMRUATTO).  Both were very good value for the money.

[Alan Gard]

My home course (Crestview Country Club in Agawam, MA, just across the MA/CT border) is also a Geoffrey Cornish design.  While I enjoy playing there on a regular basis, I wouldn’t classify it as being especially well-designed.  It features a lot of 400ish par 4’s, which play long given the turf there is consistently soft such that you get little roll.  While there are plenty bunkers, they leave a lot to be desired in terms of shaping.  It presents a good challenge, though, and as far as an everyday course goes you can do much worse in the area (though some of that is due to lack of crowds, pace of play, and a decent practice facility).  I would like to see how it was initially designed, as much is different now than the original intent (from what I’ve heard).  For example, the first hole was supposed to be an open straightaway par 4 that now plays as a tight, dogleg par 4.  The greens were supposed to be relatively flat, but several have now “settled” and have some severe contours.

I would say that my experiences with Mr. Cornish’s courses do tend to support that he liked long par 4’s.  Hopmeadow, Ellington Ridge, Chicopee Country Club, Cedar Knob Country Club (Somers, CT), Crestbrook Park (Watertown, CT) all have several longish par 4’s.  The Tradition in Windsor is the exception that proves the rule, as it is not long at all and feels very cramped.

On the whole, I wouldn’t put any of these courses on my list of “you must play this”, but I wouldn’t put them on the “I won’t go back there” list (other than The Tradition) either.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jeff B.,

You mention Mr. Cornish being budget conscious. Funny, he told me that Stanley Thompson was consistently irritated by his concern for budget!

A few times, Cornish warned Thompson that a particular change request he made in the midst of construction threatened the budget. Thompson would tell him to shut up!  

[Jay Cox]

I predominantly played Cornish's two Stow Acres courses in the 1973-76 period.  the South was quirkier and got more kudos, but the North was much better (in my ridiculoulsy uneducated at the time opinion--IMRUATTO).  Both were very good value for the money.

Rich, I played the two Stow Acres courses probably at least 50 times each growing up (1990ish to 1999) and agree with your assessment, except that the North is now the more highly rated.  They remain good values, although play is just painfully slow anytime it's crowded.

I think Stow is a good case study of Cornish's work.  Both courses are functional courses supporting a mass of lower-end-of-upscale public play, with a few interesting holes and a few very difficult holes.  

Cornish wrote about the 9th at Stow North, one of the hardest holes I've ever played:  470 yard par 4, slight dogleg left with a pond down the preferred left side and completely fronting the green from about 60 yards out, often into the wind (although I guess if you call it a par 5 I'd think it was easy).  In general, I think the South course has both the best holes (the 2nd, a semi-blind long par 4 where you get an ENORMOUS benefit if you can land a drawing tee shot in a twenty-yard-wide channel, and the downhill, risk-reward par 5 18th) and the worst holes.

[Brent Hutto]

This Sunday I'm going to play at Darby Creek, a Cornish design near Columbus, OH. Not sure how he came to build a course out there in central Ohio but I'll post a comment or two afterward. Sorry, that's not about CT Tim.

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