Where in the World?

[JLahrman]

I'm waiting for Erik Estrada to post on this thread with an offer for a free weekend tour with only minimal sales tactics.

[Buck Wolter]

Why not Northern Michigan. Seems like with your proximity something near Traverse City could become your No.2, sort of the Tom Doak living labratory -- that might or might not be a selling point to an investor I guess .

[Don_Mahaffey]

There are some unbelievably beautiful dunes along the Baja coast. San Quinten in  Northern Baja, Punta Abrejos in the central, and Punta Conejo in the South all have sand dunes along the coast. Great weather, air strips, good food and  fishing, and great surf . A whole new type of club. Only an hour or two from CA via private jet.

Might have to build a desalination plant for water, but sounds like your guy can afford it.

Of course there are some pretty cool spots on the Old Mission pennisula in your neck of the woods.

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom,

I have played a great deal of golf in Africa but most of it was pre 1970.

When doing some stuff for Anglo-American in my mining years I thought that Namibia had some of the greatest dunes in the world. Unfortunately, the Skeleton Coast is OB for anything but diamond mining. However you could have a hundred Sand Hills down there.........but no people.

Bob

[Brian Cenci]

Favorite Potential Golf Places:

*South coast of the U.P. (along US-2 between Escanaba and St. Ignace, some great dunes and right along Lake Michigan)

*Little Point Sable area (near Hart, MI south of Ludington, some great dune areas and great views of Lake Michigan)

*Northeast part of Oregon near the Washington and Idaho borders (beautiful mountain country)

*Northern North Dakota (near Links of North Dakota course is some great land, very similar to Sutton Bay in Agar, SD with rolling hills and large lakes)

[Adam_F_Collins]

Nova Scotia still needs a companion for Highlands Links...

[Wayne_Kozun]

Adam - You're not a fan of Bell Bay or Fox Harb'r?  Tom McBroom's Bell Bay is relatively close to Highland Links, while Graham Cooke's Fox Harb'r is not but it is still in Nova Scotia.

[cary lichtenstein]

There must be other wonderful sites near:

Arcadia Bluffs
Greywalls
Erin Hills
Kohler
Lakota Canyon

Any additions in these top notch topography areas will only enhance those areas amount of public play.

[Wayne Freeman]

I don't think it's economically practical and may not be available, but I think you could build a world class golf resort ( and "they" would all come)- on the ocean after you go past all the  resorts on the Big Island-  there is beautiful rolling land right on the cliff, but I don't know if it would be available because I think it's part of the Parker Ranch.  

[David Druzisky]

Shackelford allready figured it out.  Camp Pendleton in Oceanside.  Best weather, grass types available sand and dunes, proximity to other "best of" lifes needs and wants.  Several other good courses in the area.  

Oooops - owned by Uncle Sam - never mind.  

Come on Tom, give us some of your paramaters in designating what is needed for it to be "the best".

It might be best to buy something existing and start over?

[Philip Gawith]

I go with Chris Brauner - South Africa is the country that has the space, the golfing heritage and is crying out for a great golf course. I would look on the coast about 100 miles East of Cape Town, going towards Cape Agulhas, the southernmost tip of Africa - but there are other places too.

The government/environment lobby are potentially a meddlesome factor, but that is probably true everywhere.

[Jack_Marr]

What about somewhere like Croatia. Miles and miles of beautiful coastline. Then there's Yugoslavia and Slovinia.

There are also some nice dunes in Caherdaniel in Co. Kerry, but I'd say getting planning permission would be difficult.

Finally, Carne in Belmullet has about 60 spare acres, and there's more beside it - commonage, I think.

[TEPaul]

Where in the world, indeed?

If I was that mystery client, I'd go where there are no environmentalist fanatics or frankly any permitting at all. I'd go somewhere in this world where you can have the architectural latitude to do what Mackenzie was able to do about 75 years ago. Is there places like that left in this world? I don't know but one could sure find out.

[ForkaB]

What the world needs now .......is love sweet, love.....sorry, minor brain fart.....

OK, let's start again.....

What the world needs now is not more "World Class" golf courses, located in god-awful places like Lower Slobovia and Nebraska , but many more average-good, cheap and cheerful, courses located where there are people for whom golf is a social and physical benefit and not just another notch on their gun.

Is there anoybody else out there who is getting tired of hearing about the latest and greatest and wondreing what's so great about it that has not been done before?

Peacefully

rich

[Tom_Doak]

Rich:  

You are right, of course.  Maybe one of these days I'll have someone stop into the office and say he wants to fund good, affordable public golf in major cities.  It would be a nice change of pace.

But, don't dump cold water on my search for another great site.  There are great golf holes out there somewhere that have yet to be built.  I'm starting to be in a position to make some of them happen.

[ForkaB]

Hi Tom

Why don't you do both?

Save most of your time for the world class sites which demand your special expertise and experience, but let the young blood in your office cut their teeth on the more prosaic projects?

Seems like a win-win, even for us poor golfers out there who "eventually" pay your and your staff's wages.

Cheers

Rich

[SPDB]

It might be interesting to investigate the list of scheduled military base closings to see if there are any sites worthy of private development of a golf course.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
Do you really have to go to the ends of the earth to design a great golf course?  Crump did it in the sandy soil of New Jersey just outside Philly.  Fownes designed Oakmont on poor soil in Pittsburgh.  Wilson did it in a relatively average parkland setting in Ardmore, PA.  I don't think any of these would have been described as dramatic or spectacular sites yet they produced some of the greatest golf courses ever seen.  

Why don't you find some decent property and get creative like these guys did?  I'm sure it would be easier to "find" a great golf course out there in some far off corner where you might have the luxury of "deciding the best 18 holes to keep out of the 100 already there".  With lots of money, this surely could happen.  But I think you would agree, some of the greatest courses had more to do with the architect and less to do with the site that it occupied.  

Yes I love Cypress Point and a setting like Pacific Dunes will take your breath away.  But I still am in awe when I play a course like Pinehurst #2 and realize that the genius of this course is not the property, but the architect who fit the course on to it!  

[Mike_Sweeney]

Guys,

I have been know to poke some fun at Tom Doak. However,Tom has a client with a specific request. Clients pay the bills. When Tom's kids are finished at Cornell and the bills are paid, then we can tell him what projects to take.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:  I wasn't offended by Rich's suggestions.  His heart is in the right place.  And, frankly, I'm considering letting some of the boys do a project on their own ... otherwise I'm going to have to keep traveling 180 days a year to keep them busy.  They're never going to take the big leap and walk away from the projects we're getting right now, unless I start really underpaying them.

Mark F:  What you say is true, and we DO go and get creative on whatever sites our clients find.  However, I'm not really in a position right now to do just one course at a time, and I'm not convinced it would turn out significantly better than the three per year that we're doing now.  Why don't YOU build the next Oakmont and show us how it's done?  

Or do you just want me to concentrate on one project so you can have our other two?  

[Michael Moore]

It might be interesting to investigate the list of scheduled military base closings to see if there are any sites worthy of private development of a golf course.

Many years ago I played North Kingston Municipal in Rhode Island, which abuts the Quonset Point base which was abandoned in 1974. Some of the backdrops were astounding - rusted out bombers, acres of concrete, all with Narragansett Bay sparkling in the distance.

Tom Doak, of course part of me agrees with the contrarians and thinks that you should hold your client's hands, look him in the eye, think of his friends and family and tell him to keep this project in California - and of course part of me says come on up to the coast of Maine!

[ForkaB]

Tom Doak

Many thanks for going out on a limb and speculating that I have a heart.  You get bonus points for assuming that it might even be in the right place!

More importantly, you know I was being honest, and I thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Cheers

Roich

[John_Conley]

Shackelford allready figured it out.  Camp Pendleton in Oceanside.

Great point.  I remember thinking as much 20 years ago when I saw all that great oceanfront land.

[henrye]

West coasts of either Corsica or Sardinia.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

There's plenty of great dunes along Michigan's west coast.  Down by Benton Harbor with a depressed economy, I'm sure you can get some good lakefront property.  Or maybe up by Pentwater/Ludington...