Palmetto GC/Low-key Mackenzie courses

[Tim Gavrich]

NOTE: This is my first post in this forum.  I'm only 15, so I don't have nearly the experience as most (if not all) other members, so please bear with me if I say something that's wrong or uninformed.

I had the good fortune to play Alister Mackenzie's Palmetto Golf Club in Aiken, SC this summer.  It's an outstanding course, especially for 6380 from the tips.  When I played, a couple greens were being extended, and they had all been recently aerated.  Still, I had a great time.  I'm curious as to why I've not heard a whole lot more about the course.  We all hear about the old Mackenzie standards such as Augusta Nat'l and Cypress and Montecito (although Montecito seems fairly low-profile).  Can anyone who has played Palmetto as well as other Mackenzie masterpieces shed a little light on the notoriety of his courses?

Thanks.

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:  Welcome.

Palmetto is a cool place.  Dr. MacKenzie redesigned the course and rebuilt most of the greens while he was working at Augusta, but many holes in the current layout date back to the original design by H.C. Leeds, who also laid out Myopia Hunt Club.

It is a pretty low-profile club although they open the doors (and the cash register) to the public during Masters week every year.

[ChipOat]

Tim:

Welcome.  Don't be deterred by the strong opinions of others if you can give examples of holes or courses that support your point of view.

There have been a couple of threads on here in the past about Palmetto GC.  If you're as computer-literate as my kids, you know how to find them in the archives.  If not, send a private message to Scott Burroughs and he'll show you how to get to the links.

[TEPaul]

Tim:

I've never seen Palmetto but I can't forget what Mayor Ott (of PVGC) said about it a few years ago when he happened upon it. He acted like he'd come upon a real hidden gem.

It may not be too apropos to the golf course but I'd like to do a bit of historical research on Aiken, SC itself, The reason being is there are some communities up and down the East Coast that were semi-winter resorts for the rich and famous Northeastern crowd of a much earlier era and Aiken is probably one of them. It might also explain how Herbert Leeds of Boston came to do that golf course early on before Mackenzie.

Some of those very early courses were connected to the horse world back then and Palmetto and Aiken SC may be one of them. Back then there were more courses around hunt clubs and such than one might imagine now (The Country Club in Brookline, Piping Rock, Myopia, Old Westbury, Meadowbrook Hunt, etc, etc.).

Today Aiken is still very much a winter destination for the horse world and it probably was way back then too when Leeds was there. Palmetto was probably closely connected to all that. Back then the world of fox hunting, steeplechasing, equestrianism etc was huge in that world. Today it's just a relic of what it once was but it still has a small but very dedicated following and Aiken is still one of its primary winter destinations.

[Tom_Doak]

TEP:

Aiken is definitely one of those old "winter resorts".  They even have a court tennis facility to prove it.

I can't remember which of them, but one of those old-money family trusts [maybe the Carnegie trust] actually owns the land the Palmetto course sits on.  Woody Millen is the trustee.

[Tim Gavrich]

Absolutely.  In fact, when my father and I were there, we got to the course pretty early, and while we were waiting for the pro shop to open, we had a nice long conversation with a gentleman who--I believe--serves on the Aiken town council (but I cannot remember exactly).  Anyway, he's a third or fourth generation Aiken native, and he explained some of the town's history with the rich.  I found it all fascinating.  I believe he also mentioned that some of the Rockefeller family may have wintered in Aiken sometimes, among many other elites.  But as soon as I stepped onto the first tee, I got the sense that many famous feet had trod upon the place; it seemed a course that they would've appreciated.

[Marty Bonnar]

Young Tim, meladdo,
welcome.
First rookie mistake though - The Good Doctor's surname is spelled with a capital 'K' as in MacKenzie (fret not, for other more allegedly enlightened minds around here still continue to make the same mistook).

Cheers!
FBD.

[David_Elvins]

Young Tim, meladdo,
welcome.
First rookie mistake though - The Good Doctor's surname is spelled with a capital 'K' as in MacKenzie

Unless you live in Australia where for some reason it is almost always spelt with a small "k" as in Mackenzie.  Maybe Tim has just been reading up on Royal Melbourne?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tim can you tell us more about why you liked this course? I'm unlikely ever to get there so you'll have to be my eyes. MacKenzie was often noted for his bunkers and greens, are they worthy of special comment?

[Marty Bonnar]

Unless you live in Australia where for some reason it is almost always spelt with a small "k" as in Mackenzie.  Maybe Tim has just been reading up on Royal Melbourne?

David,
Bloomin' Aussies!
How can we trust a nation who can't even beat the Poms at Krikkit - as Richie Benaud might say - anymore?

FBD

[Bill Gayne]

A good book on the history of golf in the area.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUGUSTA-AIKEN-In-Golf-Golden-Age-Golf-Courses_W0QQitemZ4559423909QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Tim Gavrich]

Mr. Muldoon--

Palmetto had some many-fingered bunkers, to be sure.  Luckily, I didn't hit into any of them, so I didn't examine them more closely.  However, the greens were varied in severity and size.  If memory serves, I believe one or two of the greens sloped front-to-back as well.  The 5th, which is one of the longer par fours, has the most severe green.  Forgive me if my comments are prety vague, I was more caught up in the atmosphere of the place than tachnically.  However, I'd say that #7 is perhaps the toughest sub-170 par three I've played.  Bunkers to the left, steep drop-offs on all other sides.  A very good test of one's nerves (which i failed, hitting it short and right .  Overall, the course is about the longest 6380 I can imagine, which shows the variation in the lengths of the two-shotters.

[TEPaul]

"TEP:
Aiken is definitely one of those old "winter resorts". They even have a court tennis facility to prove it.
I can't remember which of them, but one of those old-money family trusts [maybe the Carnegie trust] actually owns the land the Palmetto course sits on.  Woody Millen is the trustee."

TomD:

Just as I suspected. I grew up in Long Island with Woody Millen. He was a very fine player. We both grew up around Piping Rock. Matter of fact, his Dad, Dr. Millen, brought me into this world.

Doc Millen was a great man--sort of a no-nonsense Rock of Gibralter. Obviously I didn't know him all that well when he brought me into this world but about eighteen years later my Dad left my mother suddenly and my Mom who never got depressed or drank, got instantly depressed and got drunk too and took to her bed the day he left her. I came home to LI from Penn and she was wailing and moaning and just said to me call up Doc Millen and tell him to get over here immediately. And so I did. About a half hour later Doc Millen arrived, all 6'7" of him. I took him up to her bedroom and he sidled in there having to duck under the top of the door. He looked at her lying there in bed crying and wailing and moaning and said:

"Frances Ellen, what in the hell do you think you're doing? This isn't you and you know it. Get the hell out of that bed and get on with it."  

About two seconds later she got out of the bed, went into the bathroom, threw some water on her face and got on with the rest of her life.

That Doc Millen was a great man!

[Brent Hutto]

However, I'd say that #7 is perhaps the toughest sub-170 par three I've played.  Bunkers to the left, steep drop-offs on all other sides.  A very good test of one's nerves (which i failed, hitting it short and right .

The one time I played at Palmetto, the flag on #7 was back left. Well, on that green it's "all the way back" when it's like five paces behind the center of the green.

Anyways, I took it directly at the flag and missed the hole by a foot finishing on the back fringe. About a 20-foot putt for birdie. My opponent, Jeff Warne, missed hole high and left in the edge of the trees on sandy hardpan. Had to hit a flop shot over a little mound thingy to that short-side pin. I missed my putt from the fringe and made par, Jeff flopped it to eight feet and made par.

What a hole. I love a good short one-shotter and that's as good an example as I've seen. Even better than the fourteenth at Pasatiempo which is my second-favorite.

[T_MacWood]

If I'm not mistaken Stanford White designed the clubhouse at Palmetto, which gives you an idea of the club's make up.

[Bryan Drennon]

Brent, I agree with you on #7. It's the best and scariest short par 3 I've ever played. I liked it so much I bought a print of it (yet to be framed).

[Jimmy Muratt]

I recently had the pleasure of playing a few rounds at Palmetto and it is really a wonderful low-key place.  Being only about 6400 yards, the bunkering and green complexes are it's primary defense.  And, they do a wonderful job.  

One of my favorite features is how the fairways are cut right up to the edge of the bunkers, so slightly mis-played shots often funnel directly into fairway or greenside bunkers.  The firm and fast conditions fit the place perfectly.  The greens are heavily contoured and were running quite fast a couple weeks ago, probably around 10.5 on the stimp.  With some of the pin positions they have, that is very fast indeed.  

The entire place just has a special charm about it.  It is very unpretentious and the members who play there, just love the game.  Their pro is a wonderful gentleman as well, and his love for the place is quite evident.

[John Shimp]

Tom MacWood: You are right about Stanford White having designed the clubhouse.  The club claims its the second oldest in the country.

On the golf course, tees have been added in the last 2 months to extend the course by about 200 yds to roughly 6600 from the tips. Yardage was added only to a handful of holes though.  About 50-60 yds was added to the par 5 10th.
Recent bunker work and green extensions are also great.  Fun course to play.