Best of the Practical Architects?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Met an old friend in the business the other day, and he told stories of Sam Mitchell, who took pride in designing practical, not flashy, but solid layouts, mostly in FL.  

Many gca's do take pride in doing similar work, even if they aren't ever going to be in magazines, or even discussed here.  In the midwest, it may have been Floyd Farley, here in TX, perhaps Ralph Plummer.

What courses do you like who were done by these less heralded gca's who often played a great part in keeping golf affordable in fun in their resepctive regions?

[Tom_Doak]

Donald Ross.

Sorry, Jeff, I couldn't resist.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Doak beat me to it  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Couldn't agree more.

BTW, I think I may stop posting on GCA now - what could be a more appropriate stopping point that post 1818?

[RJ_Daley]

Too bad the guy was a landscape-gardener architect, because at least his name would fit the bill, Capability Brown.

[RJ_Daley]

To be serious however, what would your parameters of "practical" be Jeff?  I mean, the archie that turns out the most low cost productions of say <$3million, or the one that builds the most highly utilized in terms of rounds per year as a popularity measure, etc?

[TEPaul]

Alex Findlay.

Very practical!

Remember in Young Frankenstein the little hunchback character Marty Feldman played where every time you saw him the lump in his back was in a different place?

That's the way Findlay built greens.

It works very well.

[Cliff Hamm]

In New England Geoffrey Cornish would be the obvious choice.  Brian Silva on his public courses has generally been excellent with courses more inspired than his mentor.

[John_Conley]

In Minnesota, Joel Goldstrand made it a goal to put a course in all the small towns and he's delivered.

In and around Orlando, Lloyd Clifton got a lot of work for housing developments.  I don't know that I'd term it "best", but his courses aren't bad.

How about Jeff Brauer, who has done 50 courses!!  (I don't know if "practical" is a good thing or not in your context!!)

[Mike_Cirba]

Anyone doubting Tom Paul's mention of Alex Findlay should get to Reading CC before it closes after 2006, or perhaps better yet, Tavistock CC in NJ (incredible slope to the original greens) or the first, original nine holes of Chester River CC on the eastern shore of Maryland.

By the time one gets through the second hole of the latter, or the 11th hole of Reading, or almost any of the original holes at Tavistock, if you're not a Findlay fan, then you ain't got no sense.  

Very few architects have done so much with so little earth moving.

[RJ_Daley]

Wisconsin region; Art Johnson, lots of courses, decent design, not costly.

[Craig_Rokke]

I'd agree with Findlay. I don't know if it was just some of the properties he ended up with, or not, but he seemed to relish taking the golfer on some wild up, and downhill rides! Another local one, Valley Forge, will soon be NLE. Too bad, as it's the last bit of green expanse in the concrete and asphalt jungle known as King of Prussia. What is regarded as his best course, by the way?

Cornish has an extensive array of serviceable courses, mostly public, as mentioned.

Another PA local, Jim Blaukovitch, has nicely filled a niche:
Honeybrook,Golden Oaks, Old Homestead , Bella Vista etc.

[TEPaul]

"Too bad, as it's the last bit of green expanse in the concrete and asphalt jungle known as King of Prussia."

Craig:

Actually Valley Forge G.C. is not the last bit of green expanse left in that concrete and asphalt jungle known as King of Prussia. If VF G.C. goes down the tubes which it inevitably is going to do Gulph Mills G.C. will be the last bit of green expanse left in that concrete and asphalt jungle known as King of Prussia.  

But if I had my way or have my way in the future I'd dump that piece of shit old Ross, Flynn, Maxwell, Stiles, McGovern, RTJ, Fazio golf course and move the club to the sunlit uplands and open green expanse that's known as Ardrossan Farms and have a lovely Coore/Crenshaw/Paul golf course in Radnor!  

But apparently Ben Crenshaw is still less than totally comfortable with this potential eventuality (he doesn't want to see another Ross golf course go down the tubes).

But I can take care of that problem. I'll just invite him on a Friday night to that diner where we convince people like Mayday Malone to do the right thing and I'll pummel Gentle Ben into submission. He's pretty small anyway so that shouldn't be all that hard to do.

And then that Clockwork Orange area of concrete and asphalt known as King of Prussia can do whatever they want to do without any green expanse at all!

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jeff,
Another Mitchell, William, has quite a few to his credit in our area(tri-state/ Ct, Ma, NY).
Hal Purdy too, who built some pretty wild greens.
'Unknown' also did a lot of work around here but you don't hear about anything new from him nowadays.

[Brad Klein]

Goldstrand, Clifton, Matthews, Cornish . . .

don't mistake busy with "best."

There are a number of regionally-based architcts who stayed busy in the 1960s-1970s simply by building cheap, by not adjusting plans in the field, by building golf courses that perhaps made their owners a modest little profit but that, in retrospect, are really bad. There were also some others who built good, reliable, thoughtful and well-designed courses w/o fanfare or gimmicks and who were solid if unspectacular. But don't confuse the two.

[Craig_Rokke]

I was at a home situated on Ardrossen just yesterday. My glimpses have been limited, but I can't help but think that the site has loads of potential. Plenty of room for a 90 yard wide fairway or two, on some beautiful, rolling land.

TE, The thought sounds like a neat idea, but I'm slightly surprised--I know your ties to GMGC run deep.

"Ardrossen National", perhaps?  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Brad,

That is the point!  Which architects who build moderately priced courses also put some good architectural features in them?  I agree with Ross, for sure.  Maxwell would be another, given that he built Southern Hills for $100K.

Given the 50's and 60's were basically devoted to practical architecture, guys like Cornish and that era were more along the lines of what I was talking about.

As to what constitutes practical, well, I guess you can decide.

[Tom_Doak]

James Braid was a great answer; so would Harry Colt have been.  Really, I think nearly every architect before 1930 would have labeled themselves as "practical," except perhaps Macdonald and Stanley Thompson.  Even MacKenzie surely thought of himself in that vein, though for him practicality extended to making the course beautiful as well as interesting.

Who among the latter-day practical practicioners was really skilled?  Geoff Cornish's work was extremely practical -- everything built up above grade to avoid getting into the wet and stony New England soils -- but, having seen a fair amount of it myself, I would say there was nothing particularly artistic about it.  

[wsmorrison]

Flynn was practical in three ways.  Firstly he was an early practitioner of scientific management in golf architecture.  This may well be Howard Toomey's influence, but Flynn was able to quote the cost of all the work accurately in advance.  This is an artifact of his careful record keeping so he knew the average cost of building greens, bunkers, tees, and other features on different types of soil and locations.  Secondly, he constructed his courses in a way that took cues from nature herself, angles of repose and the like with an understanding of natural erosion in order to build for the long term in a way that would cost more up front but save many times more over time.  Thirdly, Flynn spent a great deal of time on site and would work up his plans in his mind and on paper before turning a shovel.  Up to seven design iterations would be considered before actual construction begun.  And only then would work begin.  This saved the client money in the long run as work generally did not have to be undone.  Of course there are some examples where Flynn made changes due to unforseen boulders or some such thing.  But in general, Flynn's model was parsimonious with his client's money in the long run.  Frederick Taylor's influence as well?  Quite possibly.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

In the Pacific Northwest, Canadian Jack Reimer produced a series of playable and enduring courses during the sixties and seventies.  

Although Reimer's work may not have been spectacular, he produced courses that to this day produce revenue to local municipalities.  Gold Mountain's earliest course in Bremerton Washington still maintains a steady flow of traffic in combination with Harbottle's better known course on the property.  

Lake Spanaway in Pierce county produces consistent results for that park system.

Reimer also designed three private courses in the Seattle/Tacoma area in the mid to late sixties; Fairwood, Twin Lakes and most successfully my home course, Oakbrook Golf & Country Club.

At last check Reimer lives in Abbotsford B.C. although for health reasons he has been unable to travel.

[paul cowley]

In the south Joe Lee and Dan Maples built courses that were more solid than exciting but very playable IMHO.

[plabatt]

Gene Hamm and Russell Breeden were active in the Carolina's building courses for the Joe Six-packs.  Hamm's Beachwood and Breeden' Robber's Roost were among the pioneering Myrtle Beach courses catering to the Frozen Joes. Their work was eventually eclipsed by Jones and Nicklauses.

Bruce Matthews was an active architect in Michigan.  And, yes he built courses, not just holes, without bunkers.  One of his trade marks were large circular greens with very subtle contours.

[Yannick Pilon]

I would have to agree with Paul and go with Dan Maples.

As a kid in the mid 80's, I used to go to Myrtle Beach and playing courses like Marsh Harbour, Oyster Bay, The Pearl and Sandpipper Bay (just to name a few...) was usually the highlight of my trip....  These courses got me interested in golf course architecture.  I doubt they would be seen as classics today, but I will always have fond memories of theses courses.

[RJ_Daley]

While I have regrettably never played one of his courses nor met the man, I submit the name of Bill Amick.  He was prolific and innovative.  Read his bio in C&W.  He was a past ASGCA pres.  He even posted on the old Bravenet predessesor to GCA.com site.  I think he weighed in here a time or two in the first year.  I think a whole new thread could be started on Amick's ideas.  But, I wish someone that knows his work and him personally would lead that discussion.  Jeff?

[John_Conley]

Goldstrand, Clifton, Matthews, Cornish . . .

don't mistake busy with "best."

There are a number of regionally-based architcts who stayed busy in the 1960s-1970s simply by building cheap, by not adjusting plans in the field, by building golf courses that perhaps made their owners a modest little profit but that, in retrospect, are really bad. There were also some others who built good, reliable, thoughtful and well-designed courses w/o fanfare or gimmicks and who were solid if unspectacular. But don't confuse the two.

Brad:

In Minnesota, Don Herfort is the guy whose work really bites.  Not Joel Goldstrand.  Working with small budgets he knocked out enjoyable courses almost everywhere he went.  Furthering the field of golf architecture?  No, with the possible exception of his reversible nine at Golden Eagle in Eagle Bend, Minnesota.  

Fox Hollow and Cannon Golf Club are a blast to play while Farmers Golf & Health Club (no foolin') has to be seen to be believed.  (Sanborn, MN)  Joel doesn't have a bad name in his home state.  Courses worth seeing if you are a national critic for a leading magazine?  No, he just never landed those kinds of jobs.  (See Brauer, Jeff.  I imagine Goldstrand would have liked to do those courses in Biwabik.)

I don't know what constitutes "practical".

Lloyd Clifton really made a career of the housing development course.  He must have been better - which may as you imply mean cheaper - than others in the area like Joe Lee, Ron Garl, or Steve Smyers.  

You like Highlands Reserve.  Mike Dasher's North Shore is good and Eagle Dunes is excellent.  Is he a "practical" architect?  The owners of each seem to be happy.  

I'm sure if you understood where I am coming from and I knew more about your definition of "practical" we'd agree, or at least I think so.