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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
British Golf Links
« on: September 03, 2005, 01:36:38 PM »
I know it has been mentioned here before, but yesterday I took $85 from the sale of one of my basement copies of The Confidential Guide and purchased the fine reprint of Horace Hutchinson's classic 1897 book, with a terrific afterword by Daniel Wexler.

This is a sensational book.  The black-and-white photographs of early courses in their natural state bring tears to my eyes.  There is no course today as thrilling and rugged as these pictures of yore; and it is poignant to see the photos of tiny young caddies working in the outdoors, instead of glued to a computer screen.

Dan's afterword details it rather well, but it is shocking to see that of all these great old links -- most of which are still around -- only St. Andrews, Prestwick and Brancaster are clearly recognizable as similar in layout to the present versions.  Despite the fact that many of them date way back, every other famous links, from Dornoch to Muirfield to Deal and Sandwich, has been altered beyond recognition from that time up to the present.

I hope that the next century of golf sees less radical changes in the landscape.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 02:46:59 PM »
I agree, Tom. It's a fascinating book. And, the reprint is extremely high-quality.

I wrote a brief review a few months ago for GolfObserver.com: http://www.golfobserver.com/features/mingay/mingay_british_golf_links.html
jeffmingay.com

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 04:33:19 PM »
Tom I bought a copy a month ago and read a chapter most evey evening before bed.  Having played many of the courses it is fascinating to see how the courses have changed over the years.  As a memeber of Wesward Ho! and Hutchinson a former Captain his description of it is especially interesting.
It is sad that so many are NLE.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Neil Regan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 11:47:12 PM »

... it is shocking to see that of all these great old links -- most of which are still around -- only St. Andrews, Prestwick and Brancaster are clearly recognizable as similar in layout to the present versions.  Despite the fact that many of them date way back, every other famous links, from Dornoch to Muirfield to Deal and Sandwich, has been altered beyond recognition from that time up to the present.


Tom,

   I don'y know for sure, but I think that Machrihanish has a lot that dates back that far. I think that holes and greens #1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 12, 14, 15, 16 are quite similar. The other holes go over the same dunes in almost the same direction as ever. A golfer from that age would surely recognize today's course. I think that rather than the routing, he would remark first on the disappearance of so much fearsome sand. The bunkers at Machrihanish back then were the wildest of all that era.

  Not to hijack the thread, but which are the oldest putting surfaces still substantially the same today ? How many of Prestwick's greens, for example, were being used c1890 ?

Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

ForkaB

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2005, 03:19:44 AM »
When were the radical changes made to Prestwick (changing it from a 12-hole course to 18, etc.)?  Was it before 1897 and Hutchinson's book?  My memory tells me otherwise.

Tom D

I don't at all find it "shocking" that so many changes were made to most of the great British links.  In all the cases that I know fairly well, they were necessary (for various reasons) and in all cases a better golf course resulted.  I for one am glad to be playing the current versions of Dornoch, County Down, Muirfield, etc. rather than the ones which existed when Horace wrote his book.

Also, the Old Course was changed radically in the 50 years prior to Hutchinson's book.  Was that not a good thing?  Should not all courses change (even if subtly) to accomodate changing tastes and technologies?  Maybe even Pacific Dunes, someday? :)

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2005, 04:09:27 AM »
Perhaps Tom could elaborate a little more as to what has actually changed. Is it the layout, routing, design etc or is it the presentation.

I remember leafing through a copy a little while back and it surprised me as to how barren and unmaintained they were. I wonder if it is the broken dunes with sand exposed and the bunker edges completely as nature intended. Nearly all of those dunes now are thick with vegetation.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2005, 10:04:36 AM »
Neil is right that about half the holes at Machrihanish still remain from that day, although the fifth green was in the hollow then.  Prestwick expanded to 18 holes in 1883 -- only the tenth green and eleventh hole are new since Hutchinson's book.

Rich, I know you have no soft spot for history, but would you not feel a twinge of regret if 100 years from now only six of Dornoch's 18 holes were left as they are?  Or if Foxy is reduced to a drive and pitch?  As a professional I hope that more of Pacific Dunes will last that long!  I know the world has changed a lot since 1897 but this book is a clear look at just how much it really has changed.

T_MacWood

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2005, 10:24:55 AM »
What standsout with me is the raw naturalistic appearance of the hazards. One hundred plus years later it is still one of the best golf course photo essay ever produced.

ForkaB

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2005, 10:29:10 AM »
Tom

Thanks for the info on Prestwick.  I thought MacKenzie made some rude comments about the new holes, and I wouldn't have expected him to do so unless he had lost some sort of commission!  (just kidding, sort of....)

Vis a vis Dornoch, if I get to be alive 100 years from now I wouldn't mind if the course were a trailer park!

PS--when Hutchison's book was published, "Foxy" WAS a drive and a pitch, even with the balls and implements of the day.  255 yards.

PPS--I do have a real soft spot for history, just not historical artefacts with no particular intrinsic value in today's world.... :)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2005, 11:12:13 AM »
Rich:  Was Foxy just as good as a drive and pitch?  If not, would you be happy to see it revert back to one?  Exactly my point -- while some changes over time can be improvements, others are not.

Most of these links have undeniably evolved for the better, yet they have lost more than a bit of their natural character along the way.

The one other little-changed course I forgot to mention is North Berwick ... the first seven and last six holes are largely the same, although for fans of the 16th green here is Mr. Hutchinson's description:

"The sixteenth hole is on a lesser plateau [ed. - I think he means by this, not as high as the fifteenth], with banks on every side, and a dry ditch not far from the hole.  Two drives and probably a short approach are required to reach the green.  The course is level, but a wall crosses near the tee, and, farther on, a burn which often punishes a good drive."  So, in those days, the green was only half its current size, probably the front half of today's green.

ForkaB

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2005, 11:59:02 AM »
Rich:  Was Foxy just as good as a drive and pitch?  If not, would you be happy to see it revert back to one?  Exactly my point -- while some changes over time can be improvements, others are not.


Tom

I didn't see those sentiments in your earlier two posts, but I'm glad that you agree with me!

PS--I was just a young nipper in 1897, so I can't really tell you how Foxy played in those days.  Maybe you should ask somebody who is REALLY old, like TE Paul or Pat Mucci.

T_MacWood

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2005, 01:00:30 PM »
Rich
MacKenzie advised Prestwick on half a dozen new holes. The club accepted his advice, but decided to carryout the work themselves. Although it was an improvement in his opinion, MacKenzie felt the the final product wasn't as good as it should have been. Once again your memory fails you.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 01:00:47 PM by Tom MacWood »

ForkaB

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2005, 01:20:47 PM »
So, Tom MacW, was MacKenzie practicing GCA in 1883 when Tom Doak says (above) that the last significant change to Prestwick was made?  Either he or you are wrong,  and if you check my posts, you will see that my memory is pretty much along the lines of what you say, so it can't be that bad!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2005, 02:38:18 PM »
Rich:

I was just going by Dan Wexler's afterword to the book [since I'm not that well versed in Prestwick's history], but I did not do a complete job.  To quote:

" ... Charles Hunter expanded the layout to eighteen in 1883 upon the acquisition of additional land, and it was essentially that layout which was presented by Hutchinson.  Remarkably, only two substantial alterations have been made in the 110 plus years since, the first being James Braid's adding of some 300 yards of length prior to the 1908 Open Championship (which he won).  The second change was more substantial, however, for in 1922 the old seventh, a 193-yard par 3 was removed, allowing the angle and length of the par-4 eighth to be modified significantly.  To replace the seventh, additional land was acquired to the northwest, allowing for the tenth to be extended from a straight 290 yards to a dogleg-right of over 450.  The new eleventh, a 195-yarder to replace the seventh, was then routed back toward the south and right there, more than 80 years ago, our modern layout was set."

I know some of the 1922 work was by MacKenzie's suggestion; he was particularly harsh in his description of the new eleventh.  However, most of the rest of the course (and pretty much all of the famous holes depicted in the book) are intact from 1883, if not earlier.


Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2005, 03:11:32 PM »
Is there any other course in the world that has seen as little change in the past 122 years as Prestwick?  Its amazing how well it has managed with all the changes to the game during that time.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

ForkaB

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2005, 05:45:29 PM »
Thanks, Tom, for the clarification re: Prestwick.  To me, however, adding 300 yards of length in one year, and then later significantly re-routing one hole, adding another and burying another is fairly significant.  I'm confident that despite these changes, the look and feel of Prestwick hasn't changed much (except for modern maintenance standards), but the same could be said for Deal, Dornoch and others, I'm sure.

Or, maybe because the courses you cite as changing so much were recently built (or re-modeled) ones in 1897 (whilst TOC and Prestwick were relatively mature and already had achieved that patina of age), they were just rough and ready when Horace saw them, and naturally changed.

I'm not claiming this is necessarily true, just speculating and welcoming informed comment.

Cheers

Rich

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2005, 11:41:34 PM »
Thanks for the recommendation.  I will seek it out.

The mark of a man's passion for a subject can be measured in the tears of joy he expresses over the glory of his passion.  I never shed tears of joy over golf or golf courses.  It's just not me.  I sometimes shed a tear over the basketball I used to play, and I have regularly shed tears listening to music I love.  Music is my favorite.

So here's a toast to Tom and the other GCA veterans, from whom the passion never dies.

peter_p

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2005, 10:47:27 PM »
I purchased the one on eBay at good value. Machrihanish1 and Fatbaldydrummer had already bowed out of the bidding before I started. Looking forward to it based on your recommendations.

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2005, 09:11:04 AM »
If you check Amazon, the book can be bought quite a bit cheaper than $85.
Click here

Tom, where exactly did that $85 come from?   ::)
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2005, 09:13:25 AM »
Quote
There is no course today as thrilling and rugged as these pictures of yore; and it is poignant to see the photos of tiny young caddies working in the outdoors, instead of glued to a computer screen.
Why are there no course so thrilling today?  We know more, and can build better.  This is the primary reason I love a Tobacco Road or a Cruden Bay--they have exciting, thrilling holes.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Dave Maberry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2005, 03:15:36 PM »
Andy,
 I'll answer this for Tom. $85 is list price of book. It shows up quite often on Ebay brand new for alot less. Another possibility is from seller on Ebay via email. I've bought a few books this way. These are books available on www.greatgolfbooks.com
Dave

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2005, 03:22:19 PM »
The thing I find astounding about all of this is that Tom Doak has to sell a book in order to get enough money so he can buy another book.  With him getting all teary eyed over a book he obviously has hit rock bottom and is an emotional mess.  Once we get past this hurricane relief effort we need to dig a little deeper in our pockets and help out poor 'ol Tom.  
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 03:23:47 PM by Kelly Blake Moran »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2005, 03:42:56 PM »
Kelly:

I'm not so poor as not to be able to afford a book or two ... I'm normally just too cheap to buy one for myself.

Tom_U

Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2005, 03:49:09 PM »
And only $53.55 on amazon.com.  Seems like the opposite of what Mr. Moran is suggesting.  He's not digging deep; he's too happy to pay retail!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:British Golf Links
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2005, 03:52:19 PM »
I probably wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't held it in my hands ... it was an impulse buy.

However, as an author, I do feel obliged to support my local bookstore.