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mark chalfant

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help re Tillinghast and Bell in Cal
« on: September 02, 2005, 12:56:13 AM »
I learned from a friend that Tilly worked some with Billy Bell
near the end of his career. Are any of these designs still in existence ? If not are there some holes documented by photos
at LAAC or elsewhere  Thanks for any help

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re:help re Tillinghast and Bell in Cal
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2005, 01:11:01 AM »
Either Geoff or the Tillie books mention a collaboration on Brookside and Virginia.  Brookside has a lot of Tillie if you look carefully.  The bunkering is now generic, but the green complexes have a lot of the shaping that you see in metro-nyc.  It is probably in worse than dogtrack shape, but Brookside is a balls-out serious golf course.  Until the Pro-V era, it used to beat up the best of the mini-tour pros every tournament.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:help re Tillinghast and Bell in Cal
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 03:49:21 AM »
Mark,
Robert has touched a lot of bases, with the exception of the condition of Brookside. It's usually in not THAT bad of shape unless it's during the football season when the course is used as a parking lot. In the old days of course it didn't matter because the fairways were fast, firm and covered in a seed that Bell favored called, Cocoos Bent. From discussion with a couple of turfheads-a very resilient grass for public play and Ford 26' Model T parking! :)

Phil has told me that there were six (6) actual Bell/Tillinghast courses that he knows of, as well as a gigantic amount of courses visited and worked on. Some of those I'm skeptical if work was actually performed simply because there is not a lot that looks anything like they were there, or at least in the Tillie frame of things. My guess it was nothing more then minor consultation. I'm being skeptical until I have more definitive proof. (And to clairfy, Phil has been a tremendous help in piecing a lot of losse ends of this together and his contribution will never ever be taken for granted! Thanks again Phil!)

As per the Tillie book and Geoff's books, I'm currently assisting  Greg Flores of ACE Communications on the centennial history of the Virginia CC of Long Beach, as well as helping the club build a historical archives. They are a great group with a great course with one of the best Directors of Golf in the Southland, Jamie Mulligan. (No doubt in my mind that Robert will know of him) Jamie got his start at the club, left to take one of his first head job at the Cal Olson-designed Coyote Hills and then came back to Virginia with much fanfare. I suspect he will someday retire from there like his predecessor and his predecessor before him.

The club got its start as a design by committee course in 1909 on what is now known as Recreation Park. They traveled high and low to every club that was open to them ala Hugh Wilson, only never really leaving Southern California! The course was quickly constructed and it was soon realized that they needed someone who knew what they were really doing. In came Willie Watson who then created a very rudimentary but challenging 9 holes. In 1918 the course was expanded to 18 holes, still in the very geometric design style that was representitive of the day out here in SoCal. In 1920, oil was discovered on the property and it made the club more flush beyond their wildest dreams. It was reported that members who had joined weeks before the opening saw the value of the membership go through the roof!

A well was sunk and almost immediately the oil company made them an offer they could'nt refuse. One of the Long Beach founding families--The Bixby's, already members of the flourishing club, offered a plot of land to the old Rancho Los Cerritos property. The site, which consisted of beautiful rolling hills not far from the San Gabriel River was very conducive for golf. Willie Watson was again brought in and created a more dynamic, less geometric 18 that I feel may have featured an actual Chasm Hole (Biarritz) where the landshapes can still be seen to this day. (The green unfortunately is completely gone) I haven't found proof of Bell being there with Watson when they built the course in 1921-22, but its more then likely--the bunkering style looked to have changed dramatically from the usual Watson Geometric of the era. He also had a person by the name of Charlie Mayo who may have been also responsible for this. He is actually credited with the construction and some of the design of Hacienda which for years has been confused with a Max Behr, Billy Bell heritage. The Bell heritage being obviously confused with the club founder, Alonzo Bell of Bel Air fame.

What looks to be the side of a Biarritz hole near the far cliffside at Virginia CC. Vertical aerial photos are offering more definitive proof of this.



Meanwhile the oil company who bought the original site abandoned it almost immediately when it was found that particular area wasn't as close to the oil as originally thought, it was further south in and around Signal Hill. The oil company more then likely traded the land off to the city, who in turn transformed it into what we know today as the modern property lines of Long Beach Recreation Park. Billy Bell was brought in during 1926 and  quickly turned what was left of the old course into a much more interesting--quite dynamic, "Big Rec." At the same time, 7th Avenue was constructed was constructed and on the other side, "Little Rec," one of best nine hole executive length courses in the county came to life with two holes that played right on the Colorado Lagoon.

Then came the Great Depression......Amazingly, the golf courses still flourished and were packed daily. Eventually the effects of the Depression, as well as WW II would take its toll, but golf still managed to survive there.

Meanwhile, Virginia CC, all well kept at their new site, while still comfortable from the oil discovery, eventually felt the pains of the Depression. Membership started to dwindle, and with the WPA money to make the mighty San Gabriel into a concrete river  , actual claiming of a branch of the river allowed the club to go to lower portion of riverside property, closer to the redirected river. It was in 1936, Tillie made a visit to the club while on his PGA tour and from what we have found out so far, gave the green light to go down there with the course, thus allowing the club to redevelop the outer holes and turn them into housing.

Around 1938, Tillinghast teamed with Bell, who at the time was managing the Sunset Hills courses. I believe it was at this very time that they expanded Brookside into 36 holes and completely remodeled Virginia in early 1939. Some of the holes are very evident of this when you look to the backside of the greens and you see that all too familar "backstage" Tillie push-up green style!

It was also at this time that the duo were proprtedly going to be building a 18 hole layout near Seattle, but from reports, this never came to pass. A dejected Tillinghast, in a letter to Donald Ross would say, that our friends in the west have a lot to learn about the game and what it takes to build good golf--or something to that affect. (Meaning wanting to spend money)

I sure do wish a lot more of their stuff still existed or at least, was resurrected in the form of written material, photos and GREAT GOLF!

Virginia Country Club circa 1924 and 2003, Check out that blimp! (Nearest blimp airstation would have been at the Goodyear plant in the area that is now Southgate, before it moved to it's modern day location in Carson. It's pointed in that direction! :) )



« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 03:51:54 AM by Tommy_Naccarato »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:help re Tillinghast and Bell in Cal
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 05:47:33 PM »
Phil wanted me to post this. Further proof that Tillie did indeed weave his hand here in SoCal.