The Golf Club Atlas crowd

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:  The insiders were the people who could gain access to those golf courses.  Remember, not everyone has access to many of the courses in The Confidential Guide.

But, that was the publisher's addition on the back of the book jacket.  The book I printed myself didn't have the word "insider" anywhere on it.  Suggest you read the three-page introduction which I did write, as it clearly explains who the book was intended for.

[PThomas]

holier than thou attitudes suck

I think it's awesome that Tom D and Jeff B and Lester and Kelly and Mike, etc., as well as non gca's as well, post on here and teach lovers of the game and its courses like me stuff that I never knew

I've said it before: each course must be judged on its own merits

I've met/played golf with with some great people from GCA and have been the recipient of some great acts of generosity from them too...I hope I can reciprocate as well

of course GC Atlas is not perfect, but what is?  sometimes some people go over the line etc., but let's focus on the positive!

I'm so glad to be part of GCA - thanks again Ran! - an look forward to meeting more of you!

a great day to all

pt

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Adam,
The Swisher Sweet was the first cigar that I ever smoked, (On a golf course of all places!) and it will probably be the last cigar I ever smoke too! (Hopefully on a golf course!)

Although this day and age, I love these little rum-soaked cocktail cigars I get from the Thompson catalog. Pure gold, I tell ya! Pure gold!

We did have some good times in the old Golfweb days! But TE is correct, we've all learned so much more about golf architecture since then. Maintenance melds, Biarritz's, Shower heads, etc.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I must confess I hear about GCA during my golf travels as well. Many know of those of us who post frenquently as well. I think Tom brought up an interesting point. However, unless some of us have plenty of money to invest in or finance golf projects, I would not think of us as more than a sounding board for ideas. I do think Tom Paul in right in that we should drift a bit from purist ideas. However I see us as more of a think tank and not all a bunch of I agree with you types.

[Adam_F_Collins]

Adam,
The Swisher Sweet was the first cigar that I ever smoked, (On a golf course of all places!) and it will probably be the last cigar I ever smoke too! (Hopefully on a golf course!)

My good "friend" just sent me about 100 Swishers in a Havana Partagas box!!

I didn't know whether to thank him, or tell him to #@%$ off!


...that's like getting a Chevette in a Ferrari box.

[TEPaul]

"TEP:  Patrick knows I don't answer silly questions, so maybe he hoped you would."

TomD:

Nope, I doubt that. Unless Patrick the debater is totally blind or has nothing but warm air in his head (which of course is entirely possible) I'm sure he knows I don't answer his silly questions either. Pretty much all I ever do with those silly questions of his is call him silly for asking them.  

[TEPaul]

"But TE is correct, we've all learned so much more about golf architecture since then. Maintenance melds, Biarritz's, Shower heads, etc."

Naccarato, you big Troglodyte, I know you know that I'm always right, even when I'm sort of wrong. Forget about just the term maintenance meld and its vague generalities that the golf world is finally coming to hear about. For my next act I'm gonna present to the world one Scott Anderson and the nuts and bolts and specifics of what the real maintenance meld on and in the ground is all about---eg saving water and organics. I'm done with the playabilty of it, now I'm gonna introduce what it actually IS!  

By this time next year little cigars from Thompson's dipped in whatever will be a distance memory to you and you will be eating volcanic rock dust like Scott and drinking volcanic rock dust milkshakes and your Quan will be up in the Sunlit Uplands of existence where little floater balls occasonally caress your forehead.

Tom Doak said above;

"I did mean to say that some do not recognize what they don't understand."

This is the most important thing of all---eg "to always remember to know what you don't know." These are the small and large things I expect to hear on this website from some of our contributors who're in the bin-ness.

Can you imagine what this website would be like if Pat Mucci had any conception of what that means (to know what you don't know---I constantly remember that adage and apply it--it's just that sometimes I can't remember what it is I know or don't know)? He probably wouldn't be able to post anything on here for perhaps years at a time---that is unless and until he spoke with me first.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

TE,
With any luck......

Right now, I'd love to go out and have a big huge pizza loaded with everything. (thin crust) Of course I won't. I'll settle for a glass of sugar free iced tea instead.

[Adam_F_Collins]

TE,

Over 19,000 posts...

No WONDER you haven't had time to send me that Behr stuff you keep going on about!!!

Does it even exist? Or is Max Behr just a pen name for Tom Paul?

[Tom_Doak]

Bill V:

Why should a professional divulge his or her secrets, unique techniques and methods for all to see?

To further the craft of designing and building golf courses.  Some may believe they have developed something so unique that they should keep it a secret from everyone else; and that of course is up to them.  It is a competitive business.  But some of us look at the bigger picture.  If you want to see golf courses get better, you should be willing to share any details of your work when someone else asks.  [Imagine if Pete Dye never shared with me what he was really thinking about.]  What I like about this web site is that people do ask good questions.

[TEPaul]

"The smaller groups weren't as full of self-importance as the crowd that has tried to dominate golfclubatlas.com.
There is a heavy-handed-know-it-all that is pervasive in some here that actually gets a little too predictable."

redanman:

Oh Bullshit! With the possible exception of Patrick Mucci there's no one on here, not even me, who constantly acts the "know-it-all" like you do and always have done.  

As for the architects, those on here and other-wise, no doubt some of them are truly brilliant and talented but even they should never act like as soon as they hang up their shingle and get into the business they're suddenly imbued with some special or secret talent in golf architecture that others who aren't in the business will never know or could never understand.

I've said it before and even though it drives some in the business on here crazy, the one who I think probably has as much or more raw talent than anyone certainly in conceptual architecture is Geoff Shackelford. I don't care what he's done or not done, his ideas that certainly can go on the ground with or without an architect are truly brilliant, in my opinion---and they're quite unique too, not for the least reason being he just may have a better understanding of the true history and evolution of golf course architecture than anyone. It doesn't matter that he's quite young----young or not he's just got that special knack, in my opinion. Have a serious conversation about this stuff sometime, go out on a site with him sometime---you can't help notice it.

But there will be those in the business who say he's never done much so how can that be said. I don't care. I don't even care if what he's done or did do was ever particulaly popular---the stuff that comes out of his head is brilliance---particularly conceptually. I realize he's not really in the business for business, but even if he was I doubt that'd have much influence on what he did or thought.

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.  

[Kyle Harris]

Are people on here really on soapboxes, or do people put them on there?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill V:

Why should a professional divulge his or her secrets, unique techniques and methods for all to see?

To further the craft of designing and building golf courses.  Some may believe they have developed something so unique that they should keep it a secret from everyone else; and that of course is up to them.  It is a competitive business.  But some of us look at the bigger picture.  If you want to see golf courses get better, you should be willing to share any details of your work when someone else asks.  [Imagine if Pete Dye never shared with me what he was really thinking about.]  What I like about this web site is that people do ask good questions.

To make the Golf Course Architecture world a much better place. You know, like a Utopia....

[Chris Munoz]

One of my buddies calls GolfClubAtlas-GolfClubAssholes.....I just laugh at him, when he makes stupid remarks like that....


Muni

[TEPaul]

Muni:

Hah, people sure do say that and GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is the site that many love to hate but the interesting thing is they can't seem to avoid it.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Judging by the people I've met from GCA.com, I'd say it's composed of a pretty stalwart bunch of guys who love golf and golf architecture.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Judging by the people I've met from GCA.com, I'd say it's composed of a pretty stalwart bunch of guys who love golf and golf architecture.

...and have egos to match that love...

But seriously - as a newbie and a lurker - I can say that not many net sites provide such in-depth knowledge as this one.

GCA definitely rocks.

[Jim Thompson]

Although I've never pandered to any of you.  I did read a lot on this sight befre we started, picking the what i perceived to be good ideas from the mix.  I think it paid off!  I thin k others should do the same.  I think there to have half a dozen asses out of 1500 is a pretty good ratio.  Significantly better than the ratio in my college fraternity and I still love and respect my brothers!

Ego and passion are often confused.  Passion, on this site, is the guy who agrees with you and uses LARGE CASE TYPE.  Ego is the guy who disagrees with you and uses LARGE CASE TYPE.  Never give up your passions and if you must disagree, please use lower case type.

Cheers!

JT

[Joel_Stewart]

One of my buddies calls GolfClubAtlas-GolfClubAssholes.....I just laugh at him, when he makes stupid remarks like that....

Chris Gray the hack architect of the PGA also refers to the GCA crowd the same way.  

[Sean Walsh]

Joel,

Makes me think of the Denis Leary Song.. "I'm an Asshole... and Proud of it"

The good thing about GCA is that we have such a wide range of experiences amongst the 1500 or so.  There are those with professional knowledge of the architecture, greenkeeping, journalism, publishing or bureaucratic workings of "the golf industry".  Others such as myself that enjoy golf as a game and have developed an interest/passion for the fields on which we play.  

This along with friendships formed is what keeps GolfClubAtlas fresh, interesting and worth visiting on a frequent basis.

Yes, criticism on here can become a little too personal or have a "me too" quality about it.  But just like T.V you can change the channel, move to the next post.

For all its faults it's ours and for me it works.  I couldn't give a rats if some people denigrate what is generally a friendly exchange of information.