Uphill Par 3's

[Kyle Harris]

Back to the thread here guys... Wayne's HIO virignity not withstanding.

Uphill par 3s seem to have less breadth of design in them as the ones I've played typically fall into two categories:

Short and well bunkered
Long and accepting of a running approach.

The few exceptions to this rule, like 6 and 14 at Rolling Green seem to be the more notable. Though Schuylkill's 16th falls into the former category and could be one of the best short par 3's I've ever played.

Wayne, A NEW back tee on 14? Jeezus H....

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,

   You may be interested to know that there is supposed to be a "bib" of fairway on #6 at Rolling Green.

[Kyle Harris]

Yeah, this thread got me looking through the master plan you sent me and I noticed that. Though I imagine that is more of a presentation thing (Flynn!? Aesthetics!?) or maybe designed to be a bit more punitive in forcing short balls to roll down the hill.

[mike_malone]

 Kyle,
    It would enable most to bounce on ,if we go "f+f".

[wsmorrison]

I really don't think if there was a fairway extension between the bunkers on 6 that it would enable most shots to bounce on even if kept firm and fast.  The slope is too steep to be of any assistance to run the ball up for almost all trajectories so that it would not be of much help to women, seniors or juniors.  

It would serve to punish the lower handicap player that spins the ball as he/she could spin the ball off the green and down the slope a bit.  This would be especially true for front pin positions.  It would be visually interesting and may also foreshorten the distance perspective a bit.

Kyle gets it.  Can you try to explain this to knucklehead Malone ?

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,
      BTW I came  within one inch of another HIO on #6 last week. I think I know that hole better than you. In fact I think I'll have to bounce one in after we make that fairway, just to show you how it's done.

[TEPaul]

Probably the biggest design problem with uphill par 3s, particularly long ones (or uphill holes generally) at least in the minds of many golfers and certainly some architects is it's simply very hard for most golfers to get the ball in the air high enough to play them as they think they should.

This is definitely not a problem today for the good and strong golfer as they pretty much hit everything so much higher than then did even ten years ago. The reason for that is obviously these much lower spinning balls like the ProV. Lower spinning golf balls hit hard (high swing speed) just get in the air so much faster than balls (the much higher spinning three piece balls all good players used to use) used to and they stay way up there longer. That makes playing those long uphill par 3s much easier for the good player than they used to be.

[wsmorrison]

I'm happy for you, Mike that you almost had another hole in one.  Step back to the back tees sometime--you're coming too close too often  

I don't know how much better you know that hole than I.  Certainly you play it far more than I.  Yet I am a firm believer in quality not quantity of experience--ask Matt Ward.  

I did not say you cannot bounce one on, I said for most trajectories and for most golfers that need the help it would not act as such.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It was a wedge or 9 iron to a uphill blind green that was hard as a rock. It really was not a fun or even good hole to play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

James Bennett,

The old 5th at Pebble Beach, the 5th at Pine Valley, the 7th and 11th at Shinnecock, the 15th at Atlantic, the 11th at Hidden Creek, the 13th at Sand Hills and the 18th at Forest Hills Field Club come to mind immediately.

I think the desire for visibility drives the deemphasis for uphill par 3's.

When an uphill par 3 is in a setting whereby the green is a skyline green, I think it ehances the hole, and the challenge dramatically.   Throw in the wind and you really have a great hole at any distance.

The 13th at Sand Hills is one of those holes where the above elements merge to form a terrific golf hole that's far more than just a connection from the previous to the next hole.

[Bill Gayne]

I remember the seventh hole at Carne being a rather severe uphill hole.

[Jerry Kluger]

Gil Hanse's French Creek outside of Philly has two uphill par 3s.  The fifth is 122 yards from the tips but is severely uphill and you can barely see the top of the flagstick and what's really cool is that they refurbished an old barn behind the green which makes for a great backdrop.

[James Bennett]

James Bennett,

When an uphill par 3 is in a setting whereby the green is a skyline green, I think it ehances the hole, and the challenge dramatically.   Throw in the wind and you really have a great hole at any distance.

Patrick

My club has such a hole - #11 is (was) the only skyline green, and was designed as such.  15 years on from that set of changes, the trees on the boundary have grown, and the skyline is at risk.  We are reviewing the boundary vegetation for the very reasons you quote.


Forrest Richardson

thanks for the response, I'll review the search function for the prior tthree threads.


Matthew Mollica

I thought of Huntingdale #3, but thought the elevation change wasn't enough.  Ditto Metropolitan #2 (is that really uphill?  Great hole, I just love it but it seems nearly flat).  The other great par 3 I umm'd and arr'd about is Yarra Yarra #14, slightly uphill to a severely two-tiered green.  I think that has the edge on Huntingdale #3, probably because it is played into the prevailing wind.  

I should have remembered Kingston Heath #15 - that is a great uphill par 3, and a great examlpe of how to make the area between tee and green memorable.  Every bunker can be seen, striking fear into the minds of the week!

I should also have remembered Kooyonga (in Adelaide) #7 - 165 yards across a valley (including a depression below sea level!) to a three tier green (front, left and back tiers) with a strong slope to the green.  The lesser player has a bail out right, but a par is unlikely.