Most overlooked classic

[John_Cullum]

No one ever mentions Merion West. Apparently a Hugh Wilson design built about the same time as its famous sister. Is it a goat track or what? How bad can it be? Doak gave it a 4, but never mentioned the first word of it, just the number. Certainly this course merits some discussion on this site.

[Tom_Doak]

It maybe should have been a 5, although at 5900 yards par 70, some would dismiss it.  It's a really cool little course, with some bold undulations and some tiny greens.  The stretch of 5-6-7 is terrific [long 4, short 3 sharply downhill, and 300-yard drive-and-pitch over a creek].  

[ChipOat]

There's been a couple of threads on Merion's West Course in the last year or two.  I don't know how to find them but someone like Scott Burroughs may put the link up for you.

If not, keep this thread going and a couple of us will follow up on Tom Doak's comments.

It happens to be one of Ran's favorite courses and he might even be induced to post.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Sub 6000 yard courses:

1. Cape Arundel Golf Club
2. Merion West

Dr Childs your input please?

[peter_p]

Belvedere in Charlevoix, MI.

[James Bennett]

I understand (from a fellow GCA'er) that Merion West uses traditional flags, unlike the wicker basket pins on Merion East.  An interesting quirk on the one site.

[ChipOat]

James Bennett:

You are correct.

[David_Elvins]

There was a great series of photos posted a couple of years ago.  I couldn't find them on the search, hopefully someone can repost them.  

You also get some good insight into the course on GoogleEarth.

[John_Cullum]

I understand (from a fellow GCA'er) that Merion West uses traditional flags, unlike the wicker basket pins on Merion East.  An interesting quirk on the one site.

Thanks for mentioning that. I meant to ask.

[David_Elvins]

An interesting quirk on the one site.

Also worth remembering is that they are not on the one site.  It is over a mile from first tee to first tee and 600 yards between the closest points on each course.

[jeffwarne]

With the average golfer hitting the ball 180-220(at most)
to say nothing of the average senior or woman average golfer

Considering most play the white tees anyway(6000-6300 at most couses)
(Or the reds at 4800-5800)

Why couldn't a course be considered great at 5900 yards?
It would suit the game of 90%+ of those who would play it.
If it's a "9" and 90 % have the game for it simple math would make it still an "8"

If some "dismiss" it as Tom Doak says that's their right and also their loss-count them in the 10% with too much game for it

4 of the 11 courses on my Scotland Itinerary won't top 6000 yards and 2 won't top 5000-yet I'm still expecting them to be great-

[wsmorrison]

For the 1916 Amateur, The Merion Cricket Club convinced the USGA to come to Philadelphia for the Amateur and use the club's two courses for qualifying, the first time a single club could make such an offer.  At that time East and West courses were considered near equals.  The West course was some 400 yards shorter than the East but par was 72 on the West and 74 on the East.  It wasn't until just before the championships that the East par was changed to 70.  It was a last minute decision that awarded the East the match play portion of the tournament there was a long debate about which course should hold match play.

The Lesley Cup was played at Merion the prior year and members of the Metropolitan Golf Association deemed the course “too much on the tricky side of course trapping.”  This is an interesting comment as the course had very few bunkers in the beginning--only about 20 in the beginning and only 40 today.

Merion West is a fine golf course and as previously stated a wonderful test of golf for almost all golfers.  The greens are all outstanding and demand excellent approach play.  It looks and feels like playing golf 90 years ago.  No wonder Bill Dow and Ran like to play hickories there, it is so fitting.

There is a modern concession, the club recently installed an irrigation system.  Given the weather we've had around here, the course is in astoundingly good shape.  The rough is a bit tougher today I believe.  It seems thicker and a bit less spotty. Chip can say with far more certainty.

I love the West course.  Another example of Merion giving back to golf (pay attention Matt Ward), if a junior member is playing on the West and wants to bring three junior guests, they play for free.  It is a way to keep golf moving from generation to generation.  A wonderful gesture.

The fifth hole would be one of if not the best hole on a majority of courses in America.  The par 3 holes are an outstanding collection.  Like the East there is a nice mix of long and short par 4s.  The 6th-8th must be the shortest 4-3-4 combination in golf.  The par 5 holes (2, like the East) are on the short side but with great greens that make a 5 a good score.

If anyone gets a lone chance to play 36 at Merion, they cannot be faulted for playing one round at each course, the West is that good and unique in American golf.

[mike_malone]

 Back in June, I posted on the difference between Stone Harbor and Merion West. The experiences are diametrically opposed. I came away deciding that Merion West was the essence of "golf" and SH was an amusement park.

[erichunter]

Sub 6000 yard courses:

1. Cape Arundel Golf Club
2. Merion West

I would offer Pinehurst #3, Ross course that is usually overlooked due to its 5682 total yardage.  Great set of greens.

[mike_malone]

 You Merion experts know better than I , but what about the internal contours on the "flattish" greens at the West vs. the East. My limited play leads me to view the ones on the West as more interesting. Maybe it is because of the first hole and how that ground option is so much fun.

[wsmorrison]

I don't think you know Merion West well enough.  They are hardly flattish.  I find them equal in difficulty to the East.  They are darn hard to read; those greens are not easy at all.
 
That ground option on the first is excellent (there's little bumps and hollows that add to the demand) and it exists elsewhere.  

I played there with Jack Whittaker, Chet Harrington and Bill Little the other day and we had a blast.  Until I three-putted from six feet on the "flattish" 16th to let the opponents go dormie.  We had a wide variety of handicaps and had a wonderful time.

[John_Cullum]

Also worth remembering is that they are not on the one site.  It is over a mile from first tee to first tee and 600 yards between the closest points on each course.

That is odd, being that they were built around the same time.

Can we somehow blame that on some of Tom Paul's relatives?

[mark chalfant]

Mayfield ,remarkable routing over hilly property in Cleveland.
super fun !


CC of  Troy,  Travis gem near Albany with some of the best
greens in the country


Sands Point   compact Tillinghast with some lovely approaches over gullies on Long Island

[Matt_Ward]

I would include Baltusrol Upper into the picture -- very well done layout that gets only a tenth of the pub that goes to the big brother Lower Course.

[John_Cullum]

But BU is hardly overlooked. Didn't they host the US Am a few years ago? I have read numerous accounts as to how the topography on BU is more interesting than BL.

Merion West is in a league of her own as a redheaded step child.

[Matt_Ward]

John --

Depends upon how you define "overlooked" classic -- I could have easily have listed the Charles Banks design called The Knoll in Parsippany, NJ.

The course was created during the height of the Great Depression and was known to be among the more exciting layouts to have existed when it first came along.

The course is now a muni operated layout and through the efforts of George Bahto is only now beginning to move back towards its original greatness.

One other thing -- Baltusrol Upper did have the US Amateur but if you ask most people what is unique abot the course many will simply shrug their shoulders in ignorance.

The course gets far little attention -- in so many ways it reminds me of the scant attention that another little brother gets to its more acclaimed big brother -- Winged Foot East.

[Jason Blasberg]

1. Cape Arundel Golf Club

I could play Cape Arundel every day, it's a blast and a good test on a windy day.    

[John_Cullum]

... the scant attention that another little brother gets to its more acclaimed big brother -- Winged Foot East.

Winged Foot East is definitely an overlooker. I was thinking of it earlier. I know next to nothing about Winged Foot East.

[Craig_Rokke]

Paraphrasing..."There's more architecture on the West than the East" (Bill Kittleman, former long-time Merion pro). Haven't played the West, but I'm wondering about his rationale.

[Ian Andrew]

Without a doubt I would pick Gleneagles Kings. An excellent Braid layout that seems to get ignored. The course gets no love in this forum. I've never understood this fact.

There are many great holes, unbelievable natural contours, variety of lengths, some great bunkering, and even a couple of truly unique like Het Girddle (and a setting beyond compare).

Is this a non-links issue overshadowing a good golf course?