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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« on: September 02, 2005, 08:59:30 AM »
Great article in today's New York Times by Evan Rothman on public golf in the Great Plains featuring Wild Horse in NE,Hawktree in Bismarck, ND,Red Rock in Rapid City, SD & Bully Pulpit in Medora, ND. 4days and 1100 miles of great golf. Here's an excerpt:

Hawktree Golf Club is a few miles outside Bismarck proper off Highway 1804, the Lewis & Clark Trail. En route, a billboard describes Hawktree as "North Dakota's Golf Legacy," and the pride in its national profile - the course ranks No. 19 on Golf Digest's most recent list of America's Top 100 Greatest Public Courses - is evident soon upon entering the airy, modest clubhouse.

"We just had some members of Olympia Fields Country Club out here, and they could not stop raving about the course," said a pro shop attendant, speaking of the course near Chicago, the site of the 2003 United States Open. "I mean, they could not stop."

Here's the link for the article:

www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/travel/escapes/02golf.html

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matt_Ward

Re:Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2005, 09:26:15 AM »
Steve:

Not to throw water on the fire you have started but not every remote outpost in the great plains equals superlative golf.

Let me point out that The Links of North Dakota at Red Mike Resort in Ray, SD is a fine layout and clearly one of the best golf options you can play publicly for the Dakotas. It does not rise to the level of being one of the best 100 courses in the USA IMHO.

The Links by Stephen Kay does have some fine holes but the first third of the course is simply pedestrian stuff -- not worthy of the claim to be linked with the likes of Wild Horse, to give just one example.

At the par-5 7th The Links of ND begins to rise up and you do have some solid holes with the par-3 8th -- when the pin is flush right. The back nine is the better of the two sides and Kay did a fine job with the redan-like par-3 17th -- one of the best long holes you can find in the Plains for public golf.

Hawktree is also a fine effort by Jim Engh. It too is clearly one of the best public options you can play in the Dakotas and Northern Plains. Is it worthy of top 100 status -- I mean Digest has it among the top 20 public courses in the nation. My answer would be a yes for top 100 public inclusion but more towards the rear half of the pack than the front 20%.

The course is well situated on some unique rolling land and you do have some interesting and fun holes. The downhill par-3 3rd is clearly well done and the uphill par-5 5th is another solid effort by Engh who has the uncanny knack in creating par-5's that provide a wealth of options.

But Hawktree has since been surpassed by other Engh efforts -- most notably Lakota Canyon Ranch.

Clearly Wild Horse deserves the accolades it gets. I also salute Evan in mentioning the qualities of Red Rock in Rapid City. Ron Farris did a solid design in one of the most unique routings I have seen. Red Rock is clearly underrated by too many of the golf magazines that should know better. I would urge people to read Ron Whitten's insightful analysis on the course at golfdigest.com through a link to his course directory reviews.

Bully Pulpit is really a case of two stories. The first 12 holes are nicely done by Dr. Michael Hurdzan -- but those holes are on the plain as vanilla piece of the property in Medora. The remaining six holes take you closer to the famed Black Hills and it is only then that you see the very qualities that make Bully Pulpit special.

I truly believe the short par-3 15th is one of the best short holes in public golf in America. You tee off on a high ledge and the green falls away on all sides. The surrounding scenery is clearly an indicator in where you are located and the ever changing conditions make for a unique experience for the balanace of the round.

The best argument for great plains public golf is that you can find golf courses that are modest in their prices and are not cluttered with so much housing and other distractions that take away from the time you spend on the course.






Brian_Gracely

Re:Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 09:33:32 AM »
Matt,

I had never heard of Red Rocks before this article?  Can you tell us more about what makes the course interesting?  The article doesn't really provide any detail.

And I found some references to Ron Farris having worked with Pete Dye at Long Cove and TPC Sawgrass a while ago, but is that a name that people should keep on their radar screen as being capable of great things if given the chance?

Matt_Ward

Re:Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 10:00:54 AM »
Gracely:

I was most interested in Red Rock initially from the info that Whitten presented. I've been to the Rapid City area before with a round at Meadowbrook -- a very interesting and worthy to play muni course in town if you should ever get there.

Red Rock is roughly a 10-15 minite drive from Mount Rushmore and is on some of the more demanding property you can find in the northern plains. It is hilly but Ron did a skillful job in presenting holes that can be accessed through walking and many people in fact do it.

The 1st hole is a clear indicator of what you will encounter. It plays roughly 350 yards and the tee is situated high on a hill that overlooks much of the property. Long hitters may think about going for the green but there is a perfectly located frontal bunker that sits about 50 yards from the green. It can be flown but it takes a herculean blow to do it. The green is also big enough -- but not too big -- to handle the short pitches into it.

The front nine plays up and around some of the more scenic property on the site. The back nine traverses a much more wooded area but none of the holes really falls off in terms of quality.

Frankly, there is no contest between the likes of Red Rock and Links of ND and to a lesser degree with Hawktree.

Farris skillfully has used the existing land and not superimpoded his own hand to such a harsh manner. I really enjoyed the par-3 15th at 216 yards. Here you have a green that is contoured neatly with a hard right-to-left motion. Any shot hit from the elevated tee that is moving with the slightest of draw spin will move further and further away from the target. It is just one of many unique holes you can play.

Ditto the superb ending hole -- par-4 of 455 yards that dog-legs around some of the more parts of the property. The further you go left the more demanding the approach as the green is sloped noticeably from the left-to-right. If you can hit your tee shot down the right -- no easy task -- you then open the green to a much more promising angle for your approach. This is what you find at Red Rock -- details in the design and a way to use the land without superimposing oneself on the site.

Best of all, Red Rock is very E-Z on the pocketbook. Anyone visiting Mount Rushmore should visit Red Rock because it has much to offer.

For more info go to ... golfclubatredcock.com

Better yet access Whitten's review in golfdigest.com -- I quote a portion of his review ... "A minimalist course design in mountainous terrain can be a tricky proposition, but Farris pulled it off at The Golf Club at Red Rock. It is perhaps the best ground-hugging golf course laid out on a mountain slope since Coore and Crenshaw's Plantation Course at Kapalua in Hawaii a dozen years ago."

Yes, I believe Ron did work with the Pete Dye folks and has spent some considerable time in Japan before returning to his home town area of Rapid City.


Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2005, 12:39:41 PM »
Wowsers Matt!! Thanks for the detail. I too had never heard of this Ron Farris guy until you had mentioned Red Rock previously and through the Whitten article I read awhile back.

Sounds to me like he "gets it" and would build a great course on any natural setting.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2005, 05:59:56 PM »
I think this an interesting trip Evan Rothman took and I'm thinking of doing it next summer adding another stop at Rochelle Ranch in WY and extending the trip to Yellowstone. Hopefully, I'll be able to afford the cost of gasoline. ;D
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matt_Ward

Re:Great Plains=Great Public Golf
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2005, 07:51:12 PM »
Gents:

Keep in mind that any visit to Rochelle Ranch in Rawlins, WY is dependent on how fast and how thorough the course is in dealing with flooding issue that affects no less than 1/3 of the course.

I salue the efforts of Ken K for his design -- if and when everything is completed the totality of what is there is on par with the likes of Wild Horse IMHO.

Some people may quibble with me on that last statement but I'm more than prepared to go into greater detail.

P.S. One other thing -- no course of quality can surpass the unbelievable rates to play that Rochelle Ranch offers.