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JohnV

Was it a mistake or intentional?
« on: December 21, 2002, 11:52:17 AM »
Last night I went out and bought my annual Golf Digest 365 Golf Holes Page A Day calendar.  I almost didn't buy it though.

The front of the box has a picture of the 5th hole at Bandon Dunes and they somehow managed to reverse the hole.  The picture shows the hole from behind the green and the ocean is on the left in the picture.  This means that it would play on the right.  As anyone knows who has played there (or even just taken a picture) the ocean is on the left during play.

Somehow they either got the negative reversed or somebody intentionally reversed the picture.  I can't see why they would reverse it intentionally, but I also can't believe that nobody there has played the hole and didn't notice it when it was the front cover.  Any ideas?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Slag_Bandoon

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2002, 12:26:51 PM »
 John, When Captain John Cook found the area and dubbed it New Albion, he sent out Oldest Tom Morris to lay out a golf course.  For over two centuries it was kept secret until David Kidd came along and merely changed the direction of play.   That photograph you have is priceless as Capt. Cook is now dead thanks to some angry Hawaiians.   Once a year the townfolk play it in its original rotation.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2002, 01:05:43 PM »
JohnV:

I noticed that as well. Can't imagine why it would be intentional, so I assume it was a mistake. Embarrassing, don't you think?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2002, 07:53:17 AM »
This is an interesting question. In order to resolve it can you please tell me whether the door to the shop where you purchased your calendar opened swinging from left to right, or opened out swinging left to right? Also, was the clerk who transacted the purchase sitting or standing? Once I receive this information I'll be able to assist.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

JohnV

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2002, 09:29:57 AM »
Forrest,

Double doors, one went each way.  Clerk was standing.

Hope this helps. ;)

When you determine the answer could you put it in the next edition of your book so dummies like me don't have to ask?


John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2002, 09:44:36 AM »
Well, based on the information you provided I'd have to conclude the following:

Images used to be controlled by strippers (actual term), trained professionals who took real photographic prints (the kind on paper) and created separated halftones (a series of color separated films) that were used to print via offset method. Strippers are now out of work and chatting on GCA. Their domain has been replaced with Macintosh computers with graphics processors and a $300 program called PhotoShop.

Images are now days all digital. This means no more photographic prints (a rare bird!) Instead, images are whisked around the globe via computers and shared by regular people, like you and me. (I have been regular since about wednesday.)

When such individuals are trusted to images it is easy to flop the image when importing it into programs, saving it as a different kind of file, etc. Apparently this happened at a quasi-professional level, which just proves the world is going nowhere. I mean, if we can't get this right then how do we expect smart bombs to hit their intended targets?

Let me ask you, though: Would the flopped golf hole possible be better than the original? Gosh, this would not make Tom Doak or Mike Keiser very happy, but it would be an interesting thought to render an opinion about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Tom Doak

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2002, 04:02:08 PM »
I'm sure that was just a mistake.  GOLF Magazine used to flip pictures accidentally all the time, which drove me nuts, but the people in the art department didn't know the golf holes.

Forrest, I once had a long discussion with a friend about whether one could "tell" whether a picture was flipped based on architectural intent.  It was an interesting question.  In theory I would have to argue that a "mirror image" hole has exactly the same merit as the original, but in the righty-dominated world, there is a draw vs. fade bias.  (Sorry to use THAT word.)  I have never been a fan of "reverse redans," to cite just one example.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JohnV

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2002, 04:15:28 PM »
Forrest, given the location of the 5th at Bandon, if it went the other way, the prevailing summer wind would be from behind instead of into.  This would make the hole play very differently.  Now, bigger hitters would probably have to layup off the tee to avoid hitting it to where the fairway narrows to < 20 yards between the dunes.  The shot to the green would become much shorter, but require more control to stop it.  I have played the hole with the wind from behind and even in a mild breeze it went from driver-5 iron to driver-9 iron.  A huge difference.  Obviously having the ocean on the right rather than the left would hurt the average right hand slicer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2002, 09:28:38 PM »
Tom can probably explain this better than me, but my experience at Bandon involved winds seemingly into our faces for what seemed 22 holes, or more. Actually, to be honest, we played a couple of holes downwind, of which I was grateful to whomever arranged this.

The problem of flopped photos will never end. It's one of those things that drives guys with hair nuts (parts are on the wrong side), guys with swings nuts (right-handed players portrayed as leftys), and -- now -- golf course architects (holes wind up as if re-graded by magic, literally overnight.)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2002, 12:43:15 PM »
I also purchased this calender and thought the same thing.  When it comes to Bandon, they messed up all over the place.  Besides the reverse negative 5th, they also labelled the 6th the 5th.  Opps!!    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

MBL

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2002, 12:50:10 PM »
Tom-

Not liking reverse Redans?  Is this because it's apparently harder to run/release a cut shot than a draw?  Very interested....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2002, 12:58:57 PM »
MB,

I prefer regular redans for the reason you mention.  However, I have heard that in about 50 years, lefties will predominate, and I suppose the reverse redan would then be the real redan.

I have had my photos reversed in magazines on several occaisions.  Not surprizingly, I would say about half.  Of course, I have also had my name spelled horribly wrong as well!  Basically, its scary, because almost anytime there is something in a newspaper or publication I know anything about, the photos, the facts, you name it, seem horribly askew.

And of course, national opinion gets formed by those newspaper articles, on bigger issues.  Could those be just as wrong as the golf and construction articles I read?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike_Cirba

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2002, 01:40:02 PM »
As a lefthander who favors a draw, I always thought that reverse redans were the "real" redans!!  ;)

I think architects designing for a particular shot shape (i.e. Nicklaus's High right-handed fade) are bound to create unidimensional shot requirements which are ultimately unsatisfactory to a large number of golfers...not just lefties.

Plus, as Jeff Brauer mentioned, I see more and more of us out there all the time.  

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JohnV

Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2002, 01:46:58 PM »
Jeff, it is true that periodicals seem to get stuff wrong frequently.  Speaking of which, what ever happened to that guy Tony Naccarato? :)

Given that more and more pictures are digital, how can they be reversed accidentally?  It isn't like getting a slide or a negative in backwards.  You have to go in with Photoshop or some other software and tell it to reverse the picture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2002, 02:17:17 PM »

Quote
Jeff, it is true that periodicals seem to get stuff wrong frequently.  Speaking of which, what ever happened to that guy Tony Naccarato? :)

Last I heard, he was out playing in a best-ball with someone named Keffrey Bauer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Was it a mistake or intentional?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2002, 02:20:36 PM »

Quote
JohnV:

Can't imagine why it would be intentional, so I assume it was a mistake.

I take it from that comment, Tim, that you've never worked with an art director.  ::)

I think it's entirely possible (I haven't seen the calendar) that the art director purposely flopped the picture -- thinking it made no difference, really -- because the mirror-image hole works much better in relation to ... the logo, or the caption, or the price tag, or some damn thing or other.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016