Prince course at Princeville

[Sean Leary]

I played this course for the first time last week.    What I had heard and expected was a very difficult golf course. I like difficult courses, and based upon it's lofty ranking, I guess I was expecting a lot.

I absolutely hated it. Not only was it not fun, I didn't see the architectural merit in the course at all.  I missed whatever it was that allowed it to received the rankings it has received, because I have never been more disappointed in my life with a golf course. I was almost pissed off, except I was laughing at how stupid it was. I am not a huge fan of Hawaii golf in general, but I just didn't see why this course was considered any good at all.  It played VERY firm and fast, which made the experience worse I think, as the ball would run into trouble with straight shots off the tees. (I played the blue tees, at about 7000 yards)

Two of the  par 5's required a layup with an iron off the tee, otherwise  your ball would go in a the ravine.  Another par 5 had a landing area so narrow with bunkers on both sides and a lake on one side that it was an iron as well.  The other one was strange, a risk reward shot where shorter off the tee gave you a closer second shot to the green as the dogleg was almost a u shape.

As for the par 4's, I thought that a number were mediocre to bad.  The tee shot on 1 is absurd for the first shot of the day, and the second shot is downhill, downwind, tucked just over crap. The tee shot on (what I think was) number 12 was just impossible, as the trees were so overgrown there was no where to hit it with an severely elevated tee into a cross wind.  I could have hit a bucket of balls and not gotten one into play. Number 13 required a middle iron off the tee down wind before there was another jungle crossing. There were a number that were OK to good, but nothing better than anywhere else.

To be fair, I though the par 3's were pretty good. Different lengths, with different wind directions. Lots of room long on three of them to take the wind conditions into account. They were certainly the highlight.

As I stated in the beginning, I knew the course would be hard, and maybe not very enjoyable for a mid to high handicapper based on the sheer difficulty.  But I was shocked  after playing it that it has been ranked as high as it has been.  It was ranked 51st by Golf Digest in 2001, and is almost always ranked number 1 in Hawaii. Can't believe it.  Maybe under softer conditions, I would have seen more strategy or something.  Maybe someone can enlighten me with what I missed, because I just didn't get it at all.  Thoughts?

[Craig Van Egmond]

Sean,

    I pretty much had the same reaction. I thought the first hole was a brutal way to start.  Some great views, but I enjoyed Kuaui Lagoons and Grove Farm (only 11 holes at the time) better.  I have no desire to play it again. I had high expectations also and I know others who love the course. To each his own.
     

[Wayne Freeman]

Sean-  ditto for me.  I was very disappointed with Princeville and was really upset that I ran out of fairway a bunch of times.  I didn't understand the design at all and don't think it deserves any serious kind of ranking.   I did think the finishing holes were pretty good though, and pretty tough.
 I was also disturbed by the fact that you didn't get to see ocean - I think you only get a glimpse of it on one hole.
   Overall, I don't think Kauai has too much to offer with regard to golf.  Kauai Lagoons is pretty good, and I think Poipu is only fair.  P.S.  Did you go past Princeville and take the hike to the falls?  Also the restaurant Postcards up there is well worth the trip.  

[Phil Benedict]

I too have no idea how this course gets such a high rating.  I traveled from the other side of the island because of the ratings hype.  I knew it was going to be bad when I stepped up to the first tee, a severely down hill, lay up hole with no bail out.  What a rip off!

[Bob_Huntley]

No. 1.. a perfectly delightful hole, I birdied it. What's the problem?

Bob

[PThomas]

I just hope I remember not to play there when I go on my 25th anniversary trip in 8 years!

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sean,

You were lucky, or based on what you said, unlucky, to get firm conditions there.  It rains so much there, firm conditions are rare, unless they've worked on the drainage in the 11 years (almost to the day) since I played it.

[Sean Leary]

What was interesting and not really surprising is that it gets very little repeat play. I talked to the pro, and he said every comes and playes it once, loses 15 - 20 golf balls then cancels the rest of their tee times.  I have not played Koolau, but I imagine the same thing happens there.

I actually liked the Makai course there OK.  Nothing spectacular, but solid Hawaiian golf.  One of the things I don't like about Hawaii golf is the lack of interest in the greens.  With the exception of Kapalua, it seems like they are pretty boring, which I'm sure in done because of the wind conditions.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I played it 5 years ago, and I was extremely disappointed by the conditions.  The greens were very slow and very bumpy.

The next day I played Kuaui Lagoons, and it was in excellent shape.  I thought it a much more interesting course, and the views were much better as well.

[Don Dinkmeyer]

Okay, I'll pile on - I've played it three times and the love has not grown. "I'll call you..." is more like it.

That said, Kauai has Kiele, Wailua, and Puakea. That's three pretty decent courses at reasonable fees within 15 minutes of each other - not bad by Hawaiian or any other standards.

[Ben Voelker]

I've never had the chance to get out to Hawaii, but Princeville has always been fun on the EA Sports PGA/Tiger Woods series

[Andy_Lipschultz]

Sean: If the course was cheaper, would you have been less annoyed with the experience? I've played the course many times, though, I played as a "local" so I probably paid around $40-50. I really don't disagree with your  take on it, btw.

#1 is easily the most difficult hole on the course and congrats to Bob for a birdie. I think George Thomas advocated a gentle beginning for the first few holes and this flies in the face of that dictum.

#10 is the U-shaped par 5 and it is truly a preposterous hole. Short and left off the tee gives you a shorter route to the green (if you can nail a 3 wood over the baranca).

This "feature" comes up on one of my favorite SoCal courses, La Purisima. The 2nd shot on #15 is a longer poke than the tee shot. I find this the major blemish on this course. Does anyone like this sort of hole?

[Sean Leary]

Andy,

Nope, it wouldn't have mattered.  I paid $125, which to me isn't that much for what I had hoped would be a great course.  I thought 12 was harder (I wish I had a picture of the tee shot because it was so ridiculous), but 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

10 actually played shorter than that, as I hit three would down the left side of the fairway, and had like 6 iron in (I think) but if I had hit driver on the same line, I would have had more club.  I thought it was more quirky than bad.  Also, ther was a back tee box on the severe uphill par four way to the right of where I teed off from that might have been the most ridiculous tee shot I have ever seen in my life.  No tee markers there, but it definitely was a tee box.

I guess everyone who has responded had pretty much the same opinion as me, which only leave the "how is it so highly ranked" question unanswered.  Maybe simply it is the difficulty factor combined with the RTJ Jr. name on it.  Who knows..

[rjsimper]

This "feature" comes up on one of my favorite SoCal courses, La Purisima. The 2nd shot on #15 is a longer poke than the tee shot. I find this the major blemish on this course. Does anyone like this sort of hole?

Fully agree with you here Andy - the 15th at La Purisima is easily the worst hole on an otherwise excellent course.  Don't let everyone forget that in addition to being a lay up off the tee, it is a BLIND layup with a landing area that runs directly away from you into the rough guarding the fall off.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

I have played the course a couple of dozen times and have never found it as difficult as others made it out to be, unless the wind was howling.

It is a physically stunning spot, which has always helped it in the rankings.

However, I cannot see the vast number of complaints. Is ten any different from any other cape hole? If you favour the left side, which is lined by hazard and bunkers, you get a more favourable line to the green, while there is tons of room right.

Complaints about the difficulty of the first, because its the first are silly. Aronimink is celebrated for its tough opener. The hole works and a fade played off the tee does not leave a downhill lie.

You run out of fairway on 2 and 13, unless technology has caught up to 15.

Given how severe the site is, I am always amazed by the outcome. To me, the course is clearly one of the best in Hawaii, a notch below Kapalua, but still very good.

[Bob_Huntley]

Ben Dewar.

A rearsoned reponse and it sums up the place perfectly. Frankly, I think the opening hole is a cracker and a par is not that hard to come by.

Bob

[Craig Van Egmond]

Yes, it is visually stunning.

Pretty much the majority on here think its overrated and the clubhouse admits it does not get much repeat play.

Being one of the best in Hawaii, is that somewhat like being a top public course in Connecticut?

I will say this... I think it is the best Robert Trent Jones Jr course on Kauai.    

[Sean Leary]

Ben,

I appreciate your feedback. The reason for me starting the thread was I was hoping that I would hear good things about the course that perhaps that I did not see. Clearly a lot of people think very highly of it.

 I didn't think the course was THAT hard (certainly not as I hard as I thought it would be), with the exception of 1 and 12 (which I thought would have been fine if they took out all the unecessary trees out doen the right side).   10 is not a typical cape hole, in that there is no risk reward in the angle taken aff the tee in terms of how much gets cut off. There were  a number of holes that were pretty good to very good, namely all the par 3's, 5,6,8 and 18.  My point was that I didn't see what validated it's high ranking, that's all.  Yes the site was very severe, but I didn't find it that stunning.  You mention Kapalua, which I think is far more severe a site and much more stunning.  I haven't played Aronimink, but is the tee shot as intimidating as the first at the Prince, unplayable areas left ,right and long, and VERY narrow?

Bob,

my feeling on the first hole may be because it was playing so firm and fast and downwind(which is the prevailing wind).  A well struck tee shot still had a chance to bounce into the jungle. My 2 iron probably ran 125 yards after it landed.  An iron was a must because any wood shot would have run out of real estate if it was one yard left of center.  The pro told me that the group ahead of us, one guy lost six balls on number 1. Again, if it had been later in the round, I wouldn't have judged it so harshly, but for the first hole on a resort course, I thought it excessive.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Sean,
I disagree with you on the strategy of 10. The average golfer that hits a cut plays away from the trouble. Meaning that to favour the left side, with a hook, suddenly brings the bunkers and barranca into play. As you mentioned, hitting down the left side yields a very short approach. So therefore, if you take the right side as your angle off the tee, do you really have a chance at going for the green in two?

As for 125 yards of roll off the first, I have never played the course in August, but I have never seen anywhere near that much roll. It used to be an intimidating view, but a cut at the centre of the fairway meant the ball landed on the appropriate angle to run with the fairway.

I am not sure Kapalua's land is truly that much more severe, but it would be interesting to see a topo.

As for not finding it stunning, you must be a tough judge. The ocean views on six and seven and the beauty of the valley holes have always stayed with me.

[Jerry Kluger]

I played it this week and I agree that I don't like par 5s that take a driver out of your hands.  It also is frustrating to have to think so hard about what club to hit on a par 4 in order not to run out of fairway.  That said, however, I think the course would be interesting and enjoyable if played more than once.  I thought the 6th hole was kind of cool with with pin standing there with the ocean as a backdrop.  I am playing Kiele tomorrow so I will see how they compare.  I did enjoy the Planatation Course at Kapalua as there were a bunch of fun holes including some on the front which you don't see on TV, the par 3s were kind of disappointing.  

[JohnV]

I will say this... I think it is the best Robert Trent Jones Jr course on Kauai.    

Not even close.  Poipu Bay is much better.

I have to join the pile-on, I didn't like the Prince very much and said so on this board back in 1999 or 2000 for the same reasons stated by others.  At least the waterfall is natural.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played the Prince twice in December with my wife.  It is one of my wife's favorite courses.  It is set up fairly for them.  I thought it was stunningly beautiful, and the incredible in its variety in design.  I could play it every day.  The key is to honest with yourself and play the correct set of tees.

[Bob_Huntley]

Sean,

I have only played the Prince three times, all in the same week. I never had the sort of roll you experienced, hence my liking of the opening hole.

Bob

[Coral_Ridge]

Played the Prince course around 9 years ago.  I loved it.  It was beautiful and fun.  I remember liking many of the design aspects of the golf course.  I would love resort play more if it weren't for paying too much money and being rushed.  I would love to play it again some day.  The second time "around" is probably when you get the most accurate perception.

[Sean Leary]

I am glad that some people liked it because I think that Princeville is a great place.  They are starting to build a community around much of the fron nine, that took a little away from the course visually.  I thought that the Makai course there was much more beautiful and much more fun to play.  Other people I have talked said that it often plays very soft, which I believe would help that golf course (one of the very few I could say that about).