Pet Holes, Pet Features

[Jeff_Brauer]

The template hole thread was great philosophically, but everyone went right to Raynor/CBM holes.  I think other gca's have developed repetitive themes and ideas similar to those of CBM, no?

In my one post, I was thinking of other concepts I may have developed or picked up and modified, not strictly the CBM holes.

So, lets ask the question a different way - can you identify certain "pet" holes or features of other gcas?

Things like RTJ big, rolling greens?  Ross' 5-3-4 finish. Pete Dye diagonals,  even to the point of the almost standard Dye cape finishing hole, etc.  How about Doak, Moran and Spann? Or Paul C or Ian A?  Any patterns or tendencies?

After yard work, I may even weigh in on Brauer pet holes, but think it may be better coming from someone else.

[Tom_Doak]

The lake line on every Pete Dye water hazard (and many of his waste bunkers) is about the same:  20 degrees off parallel, and slightly curved, making it difficult to take a safe line off the tee.

Pete also had that short par-4 hole with the blind second shot which he fell in love with in the early 1980's, after Deane Beman wouldn't let him build it on the TPC at Sawgrass's 12th hole.  It became the 5th at Long Cove, 2nd at Firethorn, 5th at Old Marsh, and about ten other copies.

I mentioned it on the other thread, but Coore and Crenshaw's pet hole is a short/medium par 4 with the same green complex as the 8th at Sand Hills -- nasty bunker front left-center, green wrapping around both sides of it with separate narrow approaches and then a higher level at the back of the green.  They've used it a bunch of times -- the 11th at East Hampton is the first that comes to mind, but I'm just not thinking hard enough to come up with others right now.

I've used a similar green to MacKenzie / Maxwell's 13th at Crystal Downs on a couple of occasions, but I stopped so it wouldn't get stale.  Same for the 7th green at the Downs ... used modified versions at Sebonack and Ballyneal, probably won't again now for some time.  And I've used the Redan about five times, so I have a moratorium on it for a bit.  Otherwise, I am curious to see if anyone can pick out anything I've repeated myself on too often.

[TEPaul]

I believe Perry Maxwell used a bit of a template hole of his own a number of times. We have one at GMGC and so far it seems to have been his first but perhaps not.

Someone on here in another thread (perhaps it was you JeffB) said Donald Ross used basically the same green something like 73 times. I sure never noticed that.

What really surprised me was about six months ago someone posted a photo of a Donald Ross green that appeared to be almost an identical copy of PVGC's #3 green!!

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

What's the Maxwell template hole?

I had always assumed the 13th green at Crystal Downs was a MacKenzie idea, but the par-3 6th at Old Town Club had a very similar green (two-tiered, with the higher tier at the front).  So it's likely it was really Maxwell's idea and not MacKenzie's at the Downs.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I'm surprised the concept behind the 3rd green at Pine Valley hasn't been copied more frequently. In fact, I look forward to trying it in the near future!

[TEPaul]

TomD:

It's the 8th green at GMGC---similar to ANGC's #7, a par 3 at Prairie Dunes I believe, perhaps one at old Town and a couple more I can't remember right now. To me they look like the same green often with the quadrants flipped around (perhaps an attempt on Maxwell's part to hide the similarity) and very similar bunker schemes surrounding them. They generally seem to be up into hillsides.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Chris Clouser thinks Maxwell had several template holes. As he knows, I don't agree with all his assessments, like a Redan. I think Maxwell was a practical gca and simply drained greens the way they wanted to go naturally.

In other cases, its clear that he did repeat several items.

And, MacK had the boomerang greens as oft repeated features, but I rarely see that in a Maxwell green.

[TEPaul]

"I think Maxwell was a practical gca and simply drained greens the way they wanted to go naturally.'

JeffB:

I think you're right. The interesting little contours in the Maxwell greens I know seem to drain out all over the place. Doak's Jim Urbina mentioned the same thing while standing on and admiring that way PVGC's left #9 green.