Velvet Bentgrass: Grow-in & Management

[Scott Witter]

Hello all, I have a client who planted velvet bent on their greens at a 9-hole addition I did located in the northeast corner of NY on Lake Champlain.  Now, he is faced with the undaunting task of growing it in since this past spring, and attempting to manage it as needed.

I know little about this grass with respect to grow-in & management, but it was clear to me that it doesn't like to creep at all.  Rather, it grows in small patches and seems to work its way (very slowly it seems) out from there.  Therein lies the challenge of getting it to fill-in whereas, a more commonly used variety creeps and fills in much quicker with normal grow-in techniques.

So, to all of you superintendents and to those architects or others who happen to have experience with this grass, I ask for your input.  I left them with a typical grow-in program of topdressing, verticutting, spoon-feeding, but I am not even sure if this is the best approach with this grass.

The greens are sand based built to no particular specification, but to simply use what came from the site (good sand for this purpose I might add) with underdrainage...  All greens have good exposure to sun and with good air flow.

Thanks for the help.

[Craig Sweet]

Take this as coming from someone with limited knowledge.

Perhaps its been too hot this summer for velvet?
Perhaps someone did not put down enough seed?

[Scott Witter]

Craig,

I wish it were that simple.  I am aware of the basic characteristics surrounding velvet and its habits, likes and dislikes, but I thought this forum may offer some stories of experience from supers and others.

It is a slow day on the GCA site as expected...perhaps tomorrow, or later this evening, will produce more insightful replys.

Thanks

[Chris Munoz]

Scott I worked at Shelter Harbor Golf Club last year (May-August 2004) we had Greenwich Velvet Bentgrass on sand-based greens (California Style to be exact)  Guess who designed the course, Dr. Hurdzan and Dana Fry.  I can say this, one needs to spray them at least once a week with a mix of micro-nutrients and a lite dose of N.  Velvet can only take 4.0 libs of N per year.  So don't over-fertilize them, or one will face the consequnces.  It is better to under fertilize then to over...I have learned that lesson.  Another tip is to lightly topdress the greens, at least once a week.  Email me and I can give you some industry contacts to help you along....

Muni

[Sean McCue]

Scott,

Velvet is an amazing,but very differnt Bentgrass.  In a green situation is has a similar density to the A's and G's when managed properly.  It has a very upright growth habit and does not spead much at all if any.  
seeding rates for Velvet are much higher than you would normally use for other Bentgrasses.  I have found that the less you do to it the better it does with the exception of topdressing and Iron applications.  Velvet hates synthetic forms of Nitrogen, it seemed to tolerate the N better when it was in the organic form.  Does not like TGR or Prograss at all.  Velvet performs best in Acidic conditions that are found in the north east.

Sean

[Ian Andrew]

We have it at Eagle's Nest, a new course we built two years ago. The superintendent spent a week with another super in Mass. learning about the grass. The grow in is slower than you can possibly imagine, and there's little you can do to help this process.

With so many bents that come in an establish fast, I'm not sure if I would ever be comfortable with this grass being planted on any of my new jobs. I get the enviornmental and playing charactoristics that make this interesting; but I still think this grass is too big an unknown in a northern climate.

[Craig Sweet]

Everything I have read about velvet leads me to believe it is slow to establish. Some have said pre-treating seed with Apron helps with germination....I don't know.

When I suggested that this summer might not have been ideal back east for "grow in" of velvet, I was giving you a simple, basic, suggestion for your lack of grass...always look at the simple answer first...before you jump into the complex world of too little/too much top dressing/nitrogen/water/verticutting/ etc...meanwhile...the grass is growing, right? Patience....

[Scott Witter]

Thanks...I hope the comments and more actual experiences continue.

Ian,

As you may have guessed, using the velvet was certainly not my choice or recommendation.  I advocated for others, the more traditional bents and against the velvet for basically the simplicity of the matter.  Hey, I'm all for looking at it from a different angle, but in this case especially, my client isn't a wizard when it comes to this whole issue and so the velvet immediately put his back against the wall.

I have also received some IM's from others and everyone is saying essentially the same thing.. which is of no surprise to me based on the research I did early on and passed along to my client...

Craig, I got your implication and yes on 6 greens we have about 90% of a velvet surface and the other 3 are at about 75%, but they seem to have stayed there for the last 5 weeks.  I realize the weather has contributed to much of the challenge and so I encouraged my client to look on the bright side and embrace the cooler weather ahead for better growth.