News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2005, 05:26:42 PM »
 Mr. Yip beat Harmon with a bogey on 18.  Ouch.....

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #151 on: August 25, 2005, 07:05:16 PM »
George Zahringer is 2 up through 9 in the 3rd round.  I think he has to be the story of the tournament so far.

What happened?   He was 3 up through 11 and lost.  I see he bogeyed 4 of the last 6 including a bogey on 18 to lose the match.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #152 on: August 25, 2005, 07:13:49 PM »
George Zahringer is 2 up through 9 in the 3rd round.  I think he has to be the story of the tournament so far.

What happened?   He was 3 up through 11 and lost.  I see he bogeyed 4 of the last 6 including a bogey on 18 to lose the match.

Maybe he got tired. As a contemporary of Mr. Zahringer, I could see that happening in the second match he played today.  :'(
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 07:14:26 PM by Doug Wright »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

wsmorrison

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #153 on: August 25, 2005, 07:16:58 PM »
I am nearly certain the baskets were not used in 1971 though they were used in every other major championship at Merion.

Matt_Ward

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #154 on: August 25, 2005, 08:16:25 PM »
Did anyone follow the Zahringer match -- I understand he was 3-up with seven to play and lost?

Was it his own inferior play or the better play of his opponent?

Any specific info from those who have seen the match is appreciated.

Thanks ...

Kyle Harris

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #155 on: August 25, 2005, 08:18:27 PM »
Gotta root for fellow Penn Stater Mark Leon...  ;D

WE ARE...

CHrisB

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #156 on: August 25, 2005, 09:18:36 PM »
Did anyone follow the Zahringer match -- I understand he was 3-up with seven to play and lost?

Was it his own inferior play or the better play of his opponent?

Any specific info from those who have seen the match is appreciated.

Thanks ...

Matt,

I only watched the television coverage, so I didn't see every shot, but I think George would agree that his own play was mostly to blame for his loss.

He doubled #12, then chili-dipped a pitch shot on #14, bogeyed #15 (I didn't see it), missed a very short par putt on #16, and then bogeyed #18 (I didn't see that one either).

His opponent, J.C. Deacon, did hit good shots down the stretch, and his 10-12 foot par putt on #17 was big, but bottom line is that he was 3 down with 7 to go, played the final 7 in +2, and still won the match.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 09:19:29 PM by Chris Brauner »

CHrisB

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #157 on: August 25, 2005, 09:22:48 PM »
Great to see Austin Eaton still around. It's now seven young guys (Molinari at 24 is the oldest of them) and Austin.

Good quote yesterday from him (from the USGA website):

"I don’t know how I fit in," said Eaton, who is in the house construction business with his father. "This is uncharted territory for me. Normally, I’m used to playing against guys with jobs."

wsmorrison

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #158 on: August 25, 2005, 09:58:37 PM »
Bill Greenwood, the super Greens Chairman at Merion (what a great job they have done and are doing!) corrected me offline.  The baskets were not used for the 1950 U.S. Open but were used before that and thereafter.

fred ruttenberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #159 on: August 25, 2005, 10:12:12 PM »
I spent the afternoon at Merion. The course is significantly easier than it would be for a US Open. The rough is not a significant factor. In many places is is either burndt out or trampled from spectators. In addition Tom Meeks told the superentendant to cut the rough because he was concerned about lost balls holding up play for the qualifying rounds (told to me by a former Merion president).

During the previous two opens (which I attended) the rough was a significant factor. Like most US Opens it was 4 inches . However Merion rough is usually very thick.  I participated in redoing Merions slope rating in early July and a ball hit into the rough would nestle down and be very difficult to hit. Weather in Philadelphia in June is much different than in late August. Merion will be able to maintain its rough at that time and the course will play several strokes harder.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #160 on: August 25, 2005, 10:24:19 PM »
In my opinion, the course has certainly answered the call. A great deal of credit need be given to the greens crew and committee because this has been a summer from hell in Philadelphia as far as conditioning goes (not that we need to revisit any of those threads).

For the best players in the world there are nine holes (#'s 3, 5, 6, 9, 12, 14, 15, 17 and 18) they will have to play like hell to par and another five or six they will have to be sharp on and they might have a chance at birdie. #'s 1, 2 and 13 are the only ones I see as "breather" holes. Obviously bogeys are possible, but highly unlikely from US Open players.

The new tees are really spectacular from a playability perspective. They make the long hard holes much longer and exponentially more difficult. I've not seen a par on #5 yet through about 20 players.

fred ruttenberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #161 on: August 25, 2005, 10:28:16 PM »
Incidently I followed the Yip-Harmon match. Mr. Yip carried his own bag for 36 holes today. While the weather was perfect, Merion is a hilly course.

Harmon was one up going into 15. His approach shot hit the right side of the green and bounced 5 feet in the air landing at the back of the green He then 3 putted to lose the hole.
On 16 both players hit what look like excellant 2nd shots but bounced over the green. Yip just in the rough (nestled down and Harmon on the back of the fringe. Both tokk bogies.

On 17 both hit great tee shots (Harmon about 10 feet) and both ended with pars. On 18 neither player played well. Yip had a bogey and won with Harmon still needing a 4 footer for 6.A sorry ending to a fine match.

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #162 on: August 25, 2005, 10:34:51 PM »
Matt,
I followed the Zahringer/Deacon match for the last 9 holes. He did bogey 4 of the last 6 but Deacon could easily have done the same. He didn't - he hit some terrific shots - and won. Both bogeyed 15 but Deacon was very lucky - his drive was saved from going on the road to the left by hitting one of the boundary posts. Although he had to adjust his swing to avoid the post on his second shot, he managed to get the ball near the green, pitched and two-putted. At 16, I was almost certain Zahringer would be dormy 2 but he 3-putted from about 30 feet. Deacon sprayed his tee shot well to the right and could have had an impossible lie. He played to the right of the green behind the spectators, pitched to about 10 feet and made the putt. At 17, Zahringer bellied a wedge from just off the green nearly into the hole while Deacon hit a long bunker shot to about 15 feet and again made a putt. On 18, Deacon's pitched from the front left to about 6 feet while Zahringer pitched to about 12. Deacon made his putt and won.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 10:36:48 PM by Craig Disher »

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #163 on: August 25, 2005, 10:54:45 PM »
I took a few pictures while following Zahringer and Deacon. I've put them in b/w - I like the way they look. The course was in all its splendor - firm greens and fairways and although there were some brown patches, I don't think playability was an issue anywhere.


The approach to 11.



Zahringer from the middle of the fairway on 12.



Zahringer from the bunker on 12. Deacon also played from the bunker but hit a much better shot. Zahringer 3 putted from above the hole.



#13



#17



Deacon in the bunker on #17




jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #164 on: August 25, 2005, 11:11:55 PM »
We all recall the outrage expressed by many when the bunkers were redone a few years ago. The tv commentators were very complimentary of the "restored" bunkers. Are they off base or was the earlier concerns premature? I haven't read this entire thread, but I didn't see any comment on the bunkers from those at the tournament, or from any of the critics of the re-do.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #165 on: August 26, 2005, 04:04:09 AM »
I am nearly certain the baskets were not used in 1971 though they were used in every other major championship at Merion.

Wayne,
I hate to disagree with you, but it was the 1971 US Open @ Merion where my late grandfather sat me down on the couch and told me to watch this event with him, "that this was one of the great courses in the world....."

My response to him was, "Grandpa, if a guy gets it in that basket, is it a hole in one?"

Now I could be wrong, and maybe it was the 66' Amateur event, but I'm quite sure it was the 71' US Open.

 

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #166 on: August 26, 2005, 04:28:03 AM »
We all recall the outrage expressed by many when the bunkers were redone a few years ago. The tv commentators were very complimentary of the "restored" bunkers. Are they off base or was the earlier concerns premature? I haven't read this entire thread, but I didn't see any comment on the bunkers from those at the tournament, or from any of the critics of the re-do.

Jim,
IMHO, the bunkers are too deep and too cleanly maintained for my tastes. Merion to my eye, was always a rough-at-the-edges looking and playing golf course. Not anymore. It sort of looks like its going in the same direction as Pine Valley. I like it when there is sand spilling out everywhere as if the sea and wind moved it and blew it out of seaside looking blowouts. The grass around all of the bunkers looks nothing like the course I've grown to love over the years. Also, the basins of the bunkers themselves don't seem to follow the contours, shifts and turns of the edges. It's just a parabola that funnels the ball away from the edges which yields way too many fair lies for a hazard. I'm sure the depth makes up for it, but they aren't the Great White Faces that were nutured by Richie Valentine w/Bill Kittleman as his assistant.

I like those bunkers a lot better--They were legendary. I'm sure Joe Logan will say otherwise.

Given the conditions of Philly this year, the Super deserves the Red Badge of Courage and the Medal of Honor. The course seems to be playing as we like it---fast & firm.

The only reason why I haven't posted on Merion is because this is really the first time I've even looked at this post, let alone the majority of the rest of them. This is also the last thing I'm saying on this thread regarding the changes. I would rather Merion enjoy its time in the spotlight. It's one of my favorite courses in the Sport of Golf and deserves the high praise for what Hugh Willson, Bill Flynn, Joe Valentine and a supporting cast of thousands (some of them greasy Eyetalians, Jim.) that grew-up with it in Golfing Knowledge.

(thanks for letting me steal that quote Capt. Geo. Thomas)

Kyle Harris

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #167 on: August 26, 2005, 08:40:32 AM »
Tommy,

Giving the super a "Red Badge of Courage" would imply that he needs to be shot...

 :P

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Merion Today
« Reply #168 on: August 26, 2005, 09:33:19 AM »
Tommy,
Great point about the Red Badge of Courage.  The Philly region had an absolutely horrible year for golf courses.  First a wet spring, followed by 4-5 weeks of no-rain, followed by a long period of extreme heat and humidity.

The fact that Merion looks so good while other courses like Aronimink are plaing temporary greens speaks volumes to their maintenance procedures and infrastrusture.

Fortunately, the last week has brought low dewpoints and chilly nights.   Finally, we're seeing signs of bentgrass regrowth.


Jim Nugent

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #169 on: August 26, 2005, 02:36:02 PM »
Merion continues to baffle the world´s best amateurs...Deacon shot 41 on the front, and was 3 up.  His opponent shot 43.  

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #170 on: August 26, 2005, 06:24:34 PM »
Kyle,
Correct me if I'm wrong here, it's been a great many years since I read Stephen Foster's "The Red Badge of Courage" but wasn't the actual meaning was from the wounds from war?

If so, then given what I've seen in this year--exactly what Superintendents go through day to day, it most definitely the Red Badge of Courage. Most especially when dealing with the politics of the USGA, as well as rambuncticious green committee members.

Also, given the weather of the Philly area the last few months which can be best considered a war with Mother Nature, it certainly has to be considered a war which Matt Schaffer seems to be winning. I'm sure he has the wounds to prove it.

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #171 on: August 26, 2005, 06:32:37 PM »
Many of the fairways of Merion have little patches and splotches of browning out that give the fairways and some of the greens a mottled look. Some of the young players mentioned they think that's "poor condition" but in fact it's not at all, in my opinion. All the fairways are very tight and the greens are fast and putting well. The degree of firmness is also just about ideal. Some who have to do with the club would like to see the greens a bit firmer but the USGA has asked the club to keep firmness reasonable. Balls will check some and even move back slightly after the second or third bounce if hit crisply from the fairway. If hit from the rough that's not really possible. This is just about ideal strategically, in my opinion. The course is remarkably close to the way most everyone hoped it would be. No question at all that the weather in the last 4-5 days was the key---finally!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2005, 06:34:18 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #172 on: August 26, 2005, 07:09:13 PM »
In the semis tomorrow Dillion Dougherty (22) of California plays J.C. Deacon (22) of Canada at 9am and Austin Eaton (36) of New Hampshire plays Edoardo Molinari (24) an engineering student who lives in Italy. Two Americans, a Canadian and an Italian. This looks like it's winding down to an interesting semi-International wrap up.

I believe the last Canadian to win the US Amateur was Gary Cowan who won two US Amateurs quite close together during the relatively brief stroke play era of the US Amateur. Cowan won at the Wilmington C.C. and Merion. I don't know that an Italian resident has ever won the US Amateur.

Austin Eaton is the current US Mid-Am champion and apparently a close friend of our GOLFCLUBATLAS.com contributor Jamie Slonis.

TEPaul

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #173 on: August 26, 2005, 07:36:35 PM »
Jim Lewis asked;

"We all recall the outrage expressed by many when the bunkers were redone a few years ago. The tv commentators were very complimentary of the "restored" bunkers. Are they off base or was the earlier concerns premature? I haven't read this entire thread, but I didn't see any comment on the bunkers from those at the tournament, or from any of the critics of the re-do.

Jim:

All of that is an interesting story, in my opinion.

Many on this website (and others) were fiercely critical of the bunkers of Merion after their recent redo. Many on this website were fiercely critical of the club, the contractor (Macdonald & Co) and the architect (Fazio).

Was that criticism warranted or premature? Perhaps it was premature simply because the look of the bunkers before they had the time to grass in looked entirely different than they do now. Back then the sodded grass surrounds were short and the bunkers really did have a "puffy and upholstered" look because of that. Do the grass surrounds have that "puffy and upholstered" look now? Not at all. Today the grass surrounds actually look like they could have been that way for a hundred years.

However, and it probably is a large HOWEVER, that ultral rugged grassy look that Merion's bunker have now (which is actually pretty neat looking for bunkers) just happens to look nothing like the grass surrounds that Merion East has ever had in it's 90+ year history.

Were some on GOLFCLUBATLAS.com premature in criticizing the look of the Merion bunkers because they hadn't had the chance to grow in? I think so, and I feel I was one of them. It never really occured to me how rugged and natural their grass surrounds would look in a few years.

But for some who continue to criticize Merion's bunker project I guess that fact does not get around the issue that they look very little like the bunkers of Merion East ever looked before.

Did the bunkers of Merion East ever look better than these bunkers? That's an interesting question. In my opinion, they probablynever did, except during that time in the 1920s and 1930s when they had those lacy grass edges. The way the Merion bunkers used to look in more modern times was really very little different than a lot of bunkers around here at other courses. The only real issue was those old bunkers, even though they looked a good deal like many of the bunkers around here at other courses, were Merion's----and I guess that alone made them very special somehow. Did they need a ton of work before the recent bunker project? They need work desperately  before the recent bunker project---particularly sanding and drainage which had basically totally failed.

They most certainly did. The real issue was could they, or should they have just fixed those old grass bunker surrounds vs totally rebuilding and regrassing them?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2005, 07:42:09 PM by TEPaul »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Merion Today
« Reply #174 on: August 26, 2005, 07:42:55 PM »
TEPaul,

I was one of those who stated that time would improve their look.

My concern was the ability to maintain the hangover nature of the fronting earthworks, and the difficulty in entering and exiting the bathtub like bunkers.

You and I also observed the problems with the Bunker-Wol in select bunkers.

As I have stated many times, "looks" aren't everything.

It's substance, not form that matters.