[Brian Cenci]

Just returned from a 16 days, 23 rounds of golf, 7500 miles of driving trip across the western parts of America.  A friend and I left from Lansing, MI drove to Bandon and came back with multiple stops definetly not on the way.  Ended up playing 17 different courses in all so I thought I would post a few comments about the trip and the courses.  Ended up drving through the night several times and even ran out of gas in the middle of nowhere on the Nevada/Oregon border at 3 a.m., great trip though.

VICTORIA NATIONAL GOLF CLUB - Indiana
It helped that I shot an 82 from the back tees but the course was great.  A few of the greens were pretty beat up but it did not affect the playability.  It was a straight forward golf course and I liked the shot values that it provided.  I'm not a huge Fazio fan but I liked this course a lot more than World Woods - Pine Barrons.  Best Fazio I've played thus far.

OLYMPIA FIELDS COUNTRY CLUB (NORTH) - Illinois (2 rounds)
Played with Jeff Goldman.  Truly a great course and a great experience.  I don't think my game showed very well as I didn't break 90 but we played the back tees as well.  I thought the bunkers made the course.  They seemed to be on the sides of the green until you got to the green and realized that they were basically covering the front, very decieving but I liked it.  My favorite "country club" style course I've ever played....liked it more than Oakland Hills.  

THE HARVESTER GOLF CLUB - Iowa
The most underated course I played.  Absolutely loved it.  Probably won't be everyone's cup of tea but the course was magnificant.  The layout was great and the greens were lightning fast.  The last 5 holes are just great golf holes.  Course had a little bit of an Engh feel to the bunkers and some bowl greens and surrounding landing areas but it fit the course and didn't seemed forced on any of the holes.  Truly a sleeper in my book as far as quality golf courses go.  If you can play it, definetly worth the drive (just north of Des Moines).

WILD HORSE GOLF CLUB - Nebraska
Great...not much else to say.  We came on maintenance day and the first 7 fairwarys were all being plugged and aerated but the course was still magnificant.  Suprising how the same setting can provide so many different holes and shots.  Loved this course.

PRAIRIE DUNES COUNTRY CLUB - Kansas
Great experience.  I never thought that I would play a course better in my mind than Crystal Downs C.C. which I grew up playing but this course unseeded it (just barely).  Just so many unique holes that provided different shots for each and the wind was absolutely howling out there which made it a great course to play as it was meant to be played.  I loved the cottonwoods on the back holes, I think #15 from the back tees is a shot everyone should take before they die.   I think I shot 85 from the back tees and felt like I shot a 75 with that wind.

LAKOTA CANYON RANCH & GOLF CLUB - Colorado
I am not the biggest Engh fan as far as design goes but you can't tell me that you would play this course and not walk away feeling like you played a good course.  Great views, great routing and your typical Engh characterisics.  But, as far as golfing goes it is a great course.  His design may not be for everyone but you can't deny that when you play this course you will have had a good time.  I think it represented Colorado in a golf sense perfectly.  Tried to walk it and realized it's not a walking course after the front 9.  Great food too!

GOLF CLUB AT REDLANDS MESA - Colorado
Played on the same day as Lokata and I liked it better than Lokota.  Again, same type of Engh flavor and design in just a different setting.  I really liked the layout within the rocks.  It seemed like he got a bit carried away on the back with the amount of rocks placed everywhere but all in all another good course that has a different style to it.  Not for everyone that is for sure, but again you walk away having had fun and isn't that all that matters?

BANDON DUNES - Oregon (3 rounds)
Not much to say without repeating what others think of the course other than to say that it was my favorite of the 3 there.  Not sure why other that it was just striaght forward golf.  Seemed like they just cut out the gorce bushes plopped down greens, bunkers and tees and made a golf course...so I loved it.    Plus I drove the green from the back tees on #16 with my lefty faid so it hung over the ocean for half of the ball flight.  Wind was 35-45 when I was there for my first two rounds there and I would love to see pros play it like that.  I spent about an hour after that practicing a 5 iron punch from 100 yards for using when playing the rest of the courses there.  

PACIFIC DUNES - Oregon (2 rounds)
Awesome course and more WOW factor than Bandon Dunes.  First round was in a dense fog as I had the first tee time and good thing the guy we were playing with had a caddie or I would have been dead.  Hard to pick a favorite because this was just great design.  Those darn bunkers that looked safe from the tee must have gobbled up 1/4 of my tee shots in the fairway.  I need to play this again to figure out where to go on some of the holes.  Anf yea...I think it is #13 the darn wind blew my ball all the way to the top of that huge sand hill along the right side of the fairway.  Felt like a nomad up there trying to punch out.

BANDON TRAILS - Oregon (2 rounds)
In many ways this might have been my favorite.  Tough to really pick but the opening tee shot is awesome and #3 was my favorite hole on the course.  It was interesting that all the courses had a similar theme in that why many had wide fairways they really weren't.  I think a had 3 or 4 at trails roll into a bunker after hitting it right where I thought I needed to be.  Basically, Trails more than any was really deciving as far as how open it looked.

CIRCLING RAVEN - Idaho
Actually added this course at the last second because of driving issues but it turned out to be a neat golf course.  I had a great time although the course was pretty easy.  I think I shot 79 from the back tees and didn't play that well.  But, it was a cool course.  A lot of pine trees and golden brown heather linning the holes.  Glad I played it.

OLD WORKS - Montana
I really liked this course although I was ready to pass out after staying up all night the night before mingling with some of the local females in Couer D'Alene, Idaho.  Course had a neat concept and feel to it.  Back 9 kind of dragged on as far as quality golf holes but the front 9 was good golf and Nicklaus really has a neat theme throughout.

LINKS OF NORTH DAKOTA - North Dakota
Drove through the night to play here.  Really liked the course.  Probably another architect with bigger budget could turn out a "Sutton Bay" on this site but for the price ($35 to walk) it was a great course.  Golf, plain and simple...no tricks and thats what I like.  All in all a really good course, especially for the value.

HAWKTREE GOLF CLUB - North Dakota
Played the same day as Links of N.D. and I again really liked this course.  This course, although an Engh, has less of an Engh flavor to it that others I have played of his.  Par 3's were a killer from the back tees (3 of them over 225).  Good layout and just all in all a good course.

HAZELTINE NATIONAL GOLF CLUB - Minnesota
Funny because as it wasn't as structually pronounced as Olympia or Oakland I really had to think about where this fit into my rankings.  I think the course was a great course.  Rough was just brutal.  5-8 inches deep in some spots but it played the way I'm sure the pros play it.  Demanded accuracy off the tee as I had a draw going that day that interfered with my usual game plan.  But, I really like the course, I think it is just behind Olympia, Oakland and maybe Tanglewood Park as far as my favorite "traditional C.C. type courses" but again its a good course.  I thought the par 3's (besides 17) could have been a little more interesting and not all be the same club each time.

QUARRY AT GIANTS RIDGE - Minnesota
Liked the course but I was a little preplexed when I found out it was #16 in GD public.  But, I thought the number of different type of holes producing multiple shots was the best of all the publics (minus the Bandon's).  Some great risk reward holes (#2 and I think it is #13 (short par 4 on the back).  As a die hard walker I really didn't like where #17 and #18 were located plus they charged me the same rate as if I would have taken a cart.  But, again another good public course.

GREYWALLS - Michigan (2 rounds)
As a national member I somewhat consider this my home course but I was suprised in just 2 months since I had played it last how matured it looked.  I just love this course.  It's going to be interesting to see where it falls in the rankings because as a public course its one of the best I've ever played.  I like #11 through #14 the best just because those are pure golf holes.  #5 is a great tee shot.  Bottom line is as far as publics go this is right up there with Aracadia Bluffs and the VASTLY underated Lakewood Shores - Gailes course in Michigan which are all nationally renowned.


It was a great trip and I met some great people.  A lot of driving.  I'm curious if anyone else has done something of this magnitude because there were several driving sessions that were just killers.  Especially in a 2002 convertable Corvette mind you.  Interested to see if anyone else has comments on the courses I played or the trip.

-Brian Cenci

[Craig Sweet]

I surprised you lived to write about it.

[Tom_Doak]

Brian:  Since you liked every single course, I didn't really learn much from your reviews, other than you liked Redlands Mesa (which I've seen) ahead of Lakota Canyon (which I haven't).

Can you make some comparisons?  List the best holes you played?

[Brian Cenci]

Tom,
     I can preface this by saying that I did like all the courses, none of them were a bad course, a few overhyped but all of them were good courses.  It's like asking you to pick your favorite type of food when you are having lobster, prime rib, etc. for 16 straight days?  

I'm not big on the "wow" factor so if a course is in the middle of Kansas or over the pacific ocean it doesn't matter to me as long as it provides different shot values, provides me with the ability to have to make shot decisions, and the routing has to be good.  Subtle things like I prefer walking courses and also prefer harder courses..just personnal preferences.  It's difficult to describe why you like something.  Why do people like chocolate, because it's good...some better than others.

My favorites were Bandon Dunes and Prairie Dunes....mostly because both had more interesting holes that required almost every club in my bag.  I don't see how a course in any location could be presented better that Prairie Dunes.  Holes with the wind, against, short par 4's with multiple options (#3, #6, #12, #14 and #18), great long par 4's.  A great par 3 in #2 with a demanding green.  Just a perfect golf course.
Very close behind were Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails.  I really debated with my playing partner about the 3 Bandon courses and determined that they were probably all equal, there were just subtle things about all of them that you would like more.  I really liked how both Pacific and Bandon Trails (more than Bandon Dunes) provided that "open feeling" in the fairways but really weren't because the bunkers were placed to just suck balls into them.  So, it really required playing a few times to even realize that the center of the fairway wasn't always the best spot.  Favorite hole of all 3 courses is probably #3 at Trails.  I really liked how when I got to the green I didn't see a single bunker looking back at the fairway but on the tee on that hole it is littered with bunkers.  #4 at Bandon Dunes was my favorite there and #11 at Pacific Dunes was my favorite (trying to hold a ball on that green with that wind was tough) and I really liked playing #17.  In the wind that hole is a great shot makers hole.  I kept punching a 3 iron on the shelf and running in on to a back pin locations.  These four courses are right there with Crystal Downs as a comparison.

I would put Olympia, Hazeltine and Victoria on my next tier of favorites.  All 3 were so difficult from the back tees.  I liked Olympia probably a little better but I think had Victoria been in tip top shape it would have played a little nicer.  Hazeltine is just golf.  No tricks just length, thick rough, narrow and slick greens (can't go wrong with that).  These courses were similar in my rankings to Oakland Hills, Arcadia Bluffs and Lakewood Shores - Gailes.

The next tier I would put Harvester, Greywalls, Wild Horse, Redlands Mesa and Lakota Canyon with Harvester and Greywalls being the best. I really think that The Harvester in Iowa is a top notch public in the U.S.  Again, some of the bunkering style is not the norm (big round bowl bunkers) but the layout from hole to hole was terrific.  #15 from the back tees is a beast, just to even walk all the way up the entire uphill par 5.  Part of me likes Harvester enough to put it up with the next tier of courses.  I would say that Redlands Mesa and Lakota are the lower 2 of this group.  Great settings just I'm not huge on the manufactured Engh look.  These courses were similar in my rankings to a Kingsley Club, Eagle Eye, Tanglewood Park.

Links of N.D., Old Works, Circling Raven, Hawktree and Quarry at Giants Ridge were probably the lower end of what I played.  They weren't bad just were sort of "appetizer" courses as I call them (don't fill you up with golf but still taste good).  I wasn't big on Quarry and Giants Ridge just in comparison to its rating from GD.  I felt it was more of a top 40-60 not it's #16.  Although, as I stated earlier, it had the most shot values.  I really didn't like the way #17 and #18 were layed out though.

So there's some comparisons.  Again, all of the courses are top courses.

If I had to make a dream 18 from what I played:

#1 @ Bandon Trails (par 4)
#4 @ Bandon Dunes (par 4)
#15 @ Prairie Dunes (par 3)
#3 @ Bandon Trails (par 5)
#5 @ Greywalls (par 4)
#16 @ Hazeltine (par 4)
#9 @ Lokota Canyon (Par 5)
#11 @ Pacific Dunes (par 3)
#9 @ Olympia (par 4)

#13 @ Pacific Dunes (par 4)
#13 @ Greywalls (par 5)
#16 @ Victoria (par 3)
#8 @ Prairie Dunes (par 4)
#14 @ Redlands Mesa (par 4)
#17 @ Harvester (par 3)
#8 @ Circling Raven (par 4)
#15 @ Harvester (par 5)
#16 @ Bandon Dunes (par 4)

[Tom_Doak]

Brian:  Thanks for your long reply.  I learned a lot more about what you like and don't like, and how you evaluate the courses you see.  You're probably going to get bashed by some here for some of your tiered placings, since you've got Harvester ahead of Wild Horse, The Kingsley Club and Lakota Canyon ... but that does make me more intrigued about Harvester than anyone has so far, and that's what I was looking for.

Unfortunately I don't know about half the holes on your eclectic list, but of those I do, the only big surprise is the first at Bandon Trails.  I'm with you in thinking that the par-5 third is among the best on the course, but I wouldn't put the first in the same league ... it is certainly a beautiful opener but pretty straightforward when played in the prevailing wind.

And do you really like Prairie Dunes more than Crystal Downs?  I love both of them, and they are really cousins to each other more than any other course, but when I compare the two, Crystal Downs has always swept most of the categories (better par 5's, better short 4's, better long 4's, pretty close on the par 3's).  If I thought differently, I might live in Kansas today instead of Michigan.

[Wayne Freeman]

Brian- congratulations on completing such a great trip and accumulating such an impressive list of courses. You certainly played some great ones, and went to several states most of us wouldn't consider in one stretch.  Tom Doak sure put some pressure on you and I thought you came through with flying colors.
  I'm looking forward to playing Victoria National in a couple of weeks. Recently played Hazeltine which I also found to be just a brute and really not a top tier course ( I liked Interlachen a lot better).  Bandon and Pacific are super ( I'm excited about playing Trails next June), and I also feel that Prairie Dunes is awesome.  

[RJ_Daley]

Brian, when someone puts that much passion into a trek such as yours, you are entitled to rank those various courses however you like, and get respect for your opinions.  I just finished my 10th round in about 14 days, all on the same course.  I have to admit, I  need a day off because the same old course is getting a little stale and my back is pretty sore!  But, between rounds, at least I have had freedom to move around and do other things... how you can jump back into a car and stay scruntched up on those long drives is amazing.  You gotta be under 30-35

[Brian Cenci]

RJ:   I am 26 and my friend that I went with was 21.  All it was, was golfing and driving.  We went out 3 or 4 nights but a lot of hotels at 2 in the morning and a lot of sleaping in the car.  

Tom: I really debated the C.D. and P.D. comparisons.  They are cousins for sure.  Very similar structure.  I think that the par 3's at Prairie are better than C.D. though.  I think as far as shorts par 4's go I think it is a tie.  Even though C.D. has 4 great short par 4's and none better than #7.   Long par 4's goes to C.D. without a dought and par 5's I think C.D. has the edge because of #8.  I still consider C.D. my favorite course and if I had to play one course the rest of my life I would play C.D., but if I was an objective viewer and had to pick based on the course I think I would pick P.D. as being just a notch better.  Can't really explain why other than I felt it was the perfect course for that area.  C.D. has an edge on the surrounding land so in many ways P.D. gets a bit of a handicap because it can't compete with the land of C.D.  I just thought for that area P.D. was perfect.  I really don't like rankings I prefer putting courses in levels or tiers and both these two are in my top tier.

The only reason I felt that the opener at Trails should be in there because it is the perfect opening hole in my mind.  A very easy hole when you break it down but somewhat of an intimidating surrounding land as you try to focus your eyes in the morning just to get the ball airborn.  If I were picking a best 18 with no regard to location of a hole it wouldn't be in there but as far as an opening hole I loved it.  It wouldn't have the same affect if it were the 7th hole for example.

[Brian Cenci]

RJ - we also walked all but 3 of the courses total.  The worst was the third day at Bandon after playing 36 holes each day the first two days at Bandon Dunes and then Bandon Trails (carrying our own bags mind you) we played 36 at Pacific Dunes and then finished it up with 18 and Bandon Dunes in the evening for a rousing 54 holes on our final day.  After 36 it is free so got to take advantage of that.  We had to take carts the next two days at Circling Raven and Old Works because our feet were so badly blistered and sore that we could barely walk.  I had a great stench of Ben Gay going for two days after Bandon on my legs and feet so I could tape up each morning and still hit the links.  It was awesome though.  Everyone we met and told about the trek said we were crazy but in the end I'm so glad we went.  We are talking of another similar trip down south next year, although a little dialed down as far as length.

[RJ_Daley]

My advice is stay out of Couer d' Alene until you are about 46 years old...or the statute of limitations runs out...

[Brian Cenci]

RJ: Funny you mention that.  Got a ticket for going wrong way on a oneway at 2:30 in the morning with two girls stuffed in the passenger seat of the corvette.  Cop was not friendly and gave me a ticket and I had to take a sobriety test, which I passed.  Place had trouble written all over it.

[Brian Cenci]

Wayne - make sure and get a caddie at Victoria.  My guys name was "Flounder", he was a great caddie and was hurting at the end of the loop in the 100+ heat because he was hungover from the night before.  Classic!  Had some cool stories of caddying for a few famous people (Larry Bird, Dan Quayle, etc.)

redanman - The driving stretches really varried.  We had things structured pretty well so that the average night we checked into a hotel a 1 a.m. and left at 8 a.m. with only driving and golfing in between.  A ton of driving though.  The stretch from Grand Junction, CO to Bandon, OR was a brute even in one day.  We took almost all backroads too.  All in all we obeyed the speed limit, excpet through Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska when we took almost all backroads at 90+.  The stretch from Anaconda, MT to Ray, ND was a hike of 10+ hours all through the night and from Bandon, OR to Anaconda, MT took incredibly long through the backroads.  My playing partner got nailed for 15 over in the southeast corner of Washington on this stretch on a backroad.

[astavrides]

I also just played Harvester and Wild Horse (among others) on my way to my new residence in Denver.  They were both very good, but I too preferred Harvester.  There is more varied topography and setting.  The greens at Wild Horse were more interesting though.  They were harder to read.  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Ahhhh to be young again Dr V.

Remember I left you in Allentown at about 1 AM and switched to my car and motored to Westchester County in about 2 hours flat.  

Next time lets fly   (this was JUST after 9/11 and Bill and I thought a road trip prudent)

Brian - all I can say is that 400+ miles per day plus golf for 16 days    I wish I were 26 again!

[Brian Cenci]

Stavros - glad to see you played both Harvester and Wild Horse.  Two completely different tracks and golfing styles.  Harvester I felt had a great overall feel to the course.

[John_Conley]

Congratulations!  Wow.

[cary lichtenstein]

Great trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt_Ward]

Brian:

Impressive amount of time -- I took a similar trip a few years back going from NJ to CO and back with numerous stops in between.

Total time frame away was 12 days = 8,000 miles all by myself. In some cases I played 36 holes on certain days and still averaged 400 miles per day.

I can fully appreciate what you and your friend accomplished. I salute you in doing it now when you are young because trust me it gets more demanding as you get older with all the other details of life that build and build.

Glad you were able to play a number of public layouts that few on GCA have played (e.g. Old Works, Lakota, etc, etc).

[Evan Fleisher]

I live in Iowa and played the Harvester back in the summer of 2002...looks like its time for a return trip.  I loved the course back then, and am anxious to get another crack at 'er.

[RJ_Daley]

Stavros and Brian, do you think a finish of two heavily involved water holes is superior design sensibilities?  Dye gets away with it at TPC Sawgrass to name one similar watery finish.  But, in looking through the Harvester hole pictograms, I don't see that much apparent contouring on fairway or greens.  It is a lovely setting to be sure.  I will make every effort to play there on a future trip through Iowa on my way to Wild Horse.  Gee... I hope it doesn't take away the thunder and excitement of WH if I play Harvester first on the way outbound.

[Dan Kelly]

I'm sure this hole sends many, many golfers home smiling. I suppose it would be too easy without the bunkers.

[Brian Cenci]

RJ - I am a big fan of #17.  The course really isn't set up around water but #17 is a nice little par 3 and I really liked the way the tree behind acsented the rounded bunkering.  #18 I really liked because of its risk reward as you close out the round.  I liked the options on the tee shot in particular.  The bunker that is shown on the plan view of the hole is much much bigger that what it appears and it comes into play, being about 250-290 out.  It's a really demanding tee shot because you have to either lay up short of the bunker or go between it and the water to get home in two.  Wind is in your face on your tee shot so going over isn't an option.  I really found it to be a tough finishing hole.  I was 245 out and decided to lay up on the 2nd island just short of the green but went to far left into the water.  The approach is pretty good from your 3rd shot onto the green.  A back right pin position, which we played it as, is the best spot on a windy day to really make the hole difficult.  So Dan, I would not consider this an easy hole at all from 560 yds. and all that is accompanied with the hole.  

#16 is a great shit selection hole as well from the tee, check that out if you have a chance.

[Jason Topp]

Brian -

I agree in general with your comments on the courses on the Harvester.  I love the course.  I am a bit mystified by your comments on 16.  I have played the hole about 20 times and have concluded that hitting it over the hill close to the creek is not a feasible option.  The ball goes in the water about 1/2 the time, making it a random chance shot.  I find that problem a pity because I love the green.  

Did anyone in your group try and drive it over the hill?


I agree with you that 17 and 18 are outstanding.  The drawings on the web site make them look more penal than they are.  If one playes conservatively on either hole, there is plenty of bail out room.  On 18, the hole can be reached by a driver, a 6 iron and a wedge, playing quite wide of the water.

The unique thing about 18 for me is that it requires accuracy, not length, to reach the green in two.  With a decent drive close to the water, one will be within about 220 yards with room to run it up from the left.  If one goes left off the tee it is an extremely long shot to get to the green.  Given I do not hit the ball as far as many people I play with, I love at times having the advantage for a second shot on a par five.

[George Pazin]

Nice job on the trip, Brian, and on the posts as well.

I sense sarcasm in Dan's comments re: the 18th.

[Brian Cenci]

Jason - on #16 I did drive it over the hill, I just carried the bunker on the left and had a nice shot in to that green.  My playing partner layed up and still made par, just as I did but I think he had 200+ into the green where I think I had a 6-iron.  But, being 480 from the back tees laying up short of the hill isn't necessarily the best play because of the length of the hole.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()