Playing with a crappy golfer: Which course?

[DMoriarty]

The term "hack" seems to be a loaded term which connotes much more than lack of golfing prowess, so I will be politically correct and refer to the "crappy golfer."  

I will define the term as one who really enjoys the game, but for lack of ability or experience is not very good.  For me, I'll say a crappy golfer would have an index somewhere approaching 36 (the max), but others can substitute your index plus 20 to 25, if you'd like.  

On which quality courses could you and a crappy golfer play together and both really enjoy the round(s)?    

Oh yeah, assume the crappy golfer is a likeable person who understands the game, plays quickly, by the rules, and holes out whenever possible.

Also, I'd prefer it if you played the same tees.

My choices, in no particular order, are the old MPC Shores course, the Meadow Club, SFGC, Cypress (I'd prefer the CPC set-up pictured in Geoff's book, but will settle for the modern set-up), Rustic Canyon, and Augusta (based only on the pictures.)  I will probably think of more as we go along.

[Chris Kane]

Royal Melbourne
Metropolitan
Victoria

[Chris_Clouser]

You could ask Scott Burroughs and Dunlop White if Old Town is a good one for that, considering they had to put up with me.  

[John_McMillan]

I have a hard time believing the crappy golfer would enjoy Augusta.  There are carries over water on 12, 13, 15 and 16, enough trees to get in the way of most 40 yard slices, and greens that will beat any poor putter into submission.  

[DMoriarty]

I have a hard time believing the crappy golfer would enjoy Augusta.  There are carries over water on 12, 13, 15 and 16, enough trees to get in the way of most 40 yard slices, and greens that will beat any poor putter into submission.  

John,

Like I said, I've only seen the pictures and television, so you could be right.  But aren't the carries at 12, 13, and 15 relatively short, if one lays up (maybe a couple of times) before going for it?  

16 definitely has a carry as it is now, but I dont think it always had as much of one.  I guess I assume that the members' tee is not 170 as is the tournament tee, and I wouldnt consider one 140-160 par three carry to be enough to ruin a round for either me or the 'crappy golfer.'

Along the same lines, I would assume that, from the members' tees, some of the tee shots are less chute-like.  Of course I could be wrong about all of this.

As for the greens, I would agree with you if they were always kept at tournament speed.  But at a slower speed, I don't see that as being a problem.  Some crappy golfers really enjoy putting.  They make good contact a much higher percentage of the time, and they also have a much better chance of executing as they plan.  

[ForkaB]

Dave

I would happily play any golf course with the "crappy" golfer as you described him (or her), i.e. GSOH, understands the rules--including etiquette--plays quickly, etc., just as I would loath playing (more than once) any golf course with a "talented" golfer who was humo(u)rless, played slowly, forgot about the "etiquette" section of the rules, etc.  It's the golfer, not the course, that matters.

[DMoriarty]

I would happily play any golf course with the "crappy" golfer as you described him (or her), i.e. GSOH, understands the rules--including etiquette--plays quickly, etc., just as I would loath playing (more than once) any golf course with a "talented" golfer who was humo(u)rless, played slowly, forgot about the "etiquette" section of the rules, etc.  It's the golfer, not the course, that matters.

I agree.  But both you and the crappy golfer would likely have more fun at certain courses.  

Imagine you have a good friend who is a raw novice golfer, but wants to join you once a week for a round.  Your are keen on the idea but dont want to spend one round a week on a watered down beginner course.  Where would you take him (or her) for your weekly round?  

[ForkaB]

By that definition, Professor, it would have to be a course which incorporated enough forgiveness to allow the complete novice to not be completely overwhelmed or intimidated, but also had some playing interest for me (on those days when my game rose above "hackdom").

In Scotland, I would say Brora.  In the US I would say Pacific Grove.

All that being said, I'm not sure I could play a weekly game with a complete novice if he or she didn't show the potential of moving on to "hackdom", and fairly quickly........

[Doug Siebert]

What about TOC?  It has probably seen more crappy golfers than anywhere in history.  I spent an hour or two behind the 17th and 18th greens last time I was there and I saw more than a few, but most seemed to be having a pretty good time.

Not exactly a slicer's course, but nothing stops a slicer from aiming 50 yards left...

[DMoriarty]

Doug, I've never played there, so I cant really say.  But a few have expressed the opinion that it might be a bit difficult.  Deep pot bunkers and some tall grass off a few tees.

But I was kind of hoping that St. Andrews would be the ultimate course for playing with a happy crappy golfer, so I hope your view is correct.  

The crappy golfers with whom I have played dont seem to mind features like difficult bunkers, so long as there is a route around them.  

[THuckaby2]

Great topic!

I have a PERECT example for you here, David - my Dad.  He is a very happy, very crappy golfer.  He lives and dies with every shot, showing emotion that would make Palmer seem stoic.  It's hard not to have fun playing golf with the guy, for this reason and for the fact that well, my own bias aside, he's just a great guy.  He's also a terrible golfer.  He does, however, know his limitations and play to his limited strengths and considerable weaknesses incredibly well... I'd put his course management skills up against Tiger and Jack, only because my Dad has WAY more choices each hole!  

In any case he's got be a great example of the golfer you describe here.  Not a novice by any means, but a less-than-talented player without a doubt.

So where are good and bad courses for he and I to play?

Well, TOC is out, sorry.  My Dad can only do is standard "tacking manouver" (three shots sideways to go around things he can't get over) if he SEES the hazards, and too many of those are blind.  He'd have no fun whatsoever ending up in those hellacious bunkers, because he'd be pissed he got in them if he didn't see them, and he doesn't have the skill to get out... he might take 15 shots to get out of some of those, and that's no fun for anyone.  So no, I don't see TOC as a good example here... While there are ways to go around the bunkers, they are too severe for the less-skilled player, there are too many of them, and too many are blind.

As I told Tommy right after playing this course with my Dad, I swear there is a great one near and dear to you... oh yes, Rustic Canyon.  My Dad loved it, being able to bunt his four-iron around all day, have some choices to make, some things to go around, without it being too severe so he had a chance each hole but was still made to think... And I absolutely enjoyed it myself, also.  Might be the perfect course for he and I to play - again, I wish I lived closer.

As for the others you mention, well....

MPCC "old" Shore - well, Dad would struggle mightily on the forested holes, and the greens would have given him fits.  Still, the views out by the drive were nice, and he'd like that... I loved the course myself, so I guess it works.  I'd just have to nurse him along the first three holes.

Meadow Club - good call.  Maybe a little tight, but there is tacking room....

SFGC - another great call.  Works.  Again he might require some nursing through the tight holes, but he'd love it.

Cypress - well.... maybe too severe in places, but who wouldn't love the challenge?  Dad already has contemplated how he'd play 16, and master tactician he is, he said he'd have to give it a try to make the carry, only because he couldn't live with the concession to age and admit he can't make it, but after dunking one, he knows a good way to play the hole... he's asked me all about the various carry distances to the left!    

Augusta looks perfect as well, from everything we see in pics and on TV.

As for some others, well....

I'm wondering if Pacific Dunes works.  I think so, but it strikes me as having the same "too severe in places" comment that I give to Cypress... by that I mean, Dad could get lost in the sand dunes and never be seen again.... whaddya think?  Maybe Bandon works better, being generally wider?

I'm gonna give this more thought as well.  I hope to have this choice to make for many more years, as my Dad has now retired and is getting more into the game.

TH