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Matthew Schulte

  • Total Karma: 0
What do you think of this?
« on: August 14, 2005, 03:49:26 PM »
What do you all think of this hole?  The course is not yet open so few people have seen this so far.  The carry from the very back tee over the bunkers is only 200 yards.  The water should not come into play.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 03:50:33 PM by Matthew Schulte »
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Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 25
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2005, 03:56:32 PM »
Matthew:

I like the rugged edges of the lake ... I stink at building lakes which look natural.

Is it Colorado Golf Club?
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Matthew Schulte

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2005, 03:58:34 PM »
No it isn't the C&C Colorado Golf Club.  A good guess though.
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Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 25
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2005, 04:01:17 PM »
I didn't think Bill and Ben would have a water hazard, unless absolutely necessary.

Looks like Colorado or Utah though.  I'll stay tuned.

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Matthew Schulte

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 04:05:53 PM »
I will let others chime in before revealing where it is.
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Dan Herrmann

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2005, 04:14:27 PM »
The fairly short trees spell high altitude to me.   Just to be different, I'll guess Idaho.
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A_Clay_Man

Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2005, 07:16:24 PM »
Matt- I assume the holes persists up to the right?
If so, is the far bunker corner driveable downwind? Is it rewarded if it is?

I think I would hate the hole if 1) the hole goes left 2) the risk of trying to carry everything isn't rewarded.
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Michael Dugger

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2005, 07:45:10 PM »
Is it Fazio at Pronghorn??
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2005, 08:15:48 PM »
Flying Horse by Weiskopf near Colorado Springs?
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Matthew Schulte

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2005, 09:36:57 PM »
Adam:  The hole does indeed go to the right.




Steve:  No it isn't Flying Horse.  Did you check it out on your recent visit?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 09:40:41 PM by Matthew Schulte »
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RJ_Daley

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2005, 10:00:26 PM »
This appears to be back championship tees with the 200 yard carry.  The forward tees to the right appear to not actually have a direct line over the water as you go forward.  Anybody on a championship back tee ought to be able to bunt it across.  

I still am bias about the finality of the watery grave.  I know, I know, Cypress Point and all that... ::)

If the hole comes into the round it is better.  I don't like it if it comes within say the first 2 holes.
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2005, 01:28:13 PM »
I know what course it is, but I like the hole so far and don't mind big carries like this....as long as it's only once or twice a round.  However, I know that this is hole #1 on this course, and don't like that this is the tee shot that you must face right off the bat, a 200-yard carry over water.  A little later in the round is preferable, IMO.

FYI, the hole is a par 4, 441 yards from the tips.  The next tee up hits from just a few yards closer and has basically the same carry.

To me, this looks like a Strantz hole, especially in the hole rendering...the wide landing area...the waste areas...Stonehouse #2 has a similar tee shot from the tips (actually a little more carry).

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Mike Benham

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2005, 02:58:13 PM »
Funny, the question was "What do you think of this?", not "Where is it?" ...

I like it assuming that the bunkering style is consistant throughout the course.  If the color of the sand in the bunkers was consistant with the color of the dirt on the edge of the pond, that would even be better ...
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RJ_Daley

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2005, 03:17:55 PM »
I would be shocked if Scott isn't on to this, since he says he knows which course and what hole.  Assuming he is correct, and assuming it is a C&C design effort as Doak elludes to, I think it is not good design for all those reasons of opening hole-water carry, excessive length, and not much difference in back and middle tees.  Let's face it, that isn't good design principles, or certainly not the widely accepted conventional wisdom.  

So, I'm not going to sit here and rationalise that it is good design, and must be some sort of genius deviation from the conventional, just because it is C&C.  

I must say, it certainly has the "look" of a Strantz hole without the water, the way the hole is presented and bunkering and waste areas are arrayed.

I'd have to believe that the water was completely non-avoidable in the design for any archie to purposely choose to site a first hole in this manner.
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Mike_Cirba

Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2005, 03:26:39 PM »
Water as a forced carry on the opening tee shot is only "purposefully unavoidable" when the clubhouse and surrounds are protected, medieval style, by a moat.   :P ::) ;D
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Peter_Herreid

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2005, 03:30:09 PM »
Well-phrased query, Matt, as I have an inkling, as well!  I'll be shocked if this turns out to be C/C, as I suspect a completely different angle...

OT:  I think "Wellness Center" will become one of the true worn-out phrases of this decade.  Just how many "wellness centers" do we need in this country, and how sick are we?  Can't anyplace just be a "spa" anymore?  but I do agree that "upscale massage parlor" doesn't have a good marketing ring to it...

What do I think of this hole?   Well, I think I'd be hitting 3 plenty of times off the first tee, and that always leaves a bitter taste...
« Last Edit: August 15, 2005, 03:31:16 PM by Peter_Herreid »
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2005, 03:38:26 PM »
Dick,

It's not C&C and the next up tees are not the "middle" tees.  This is a modern course, 5 tees is standard, right?   ::)

Actually, it does have 5 sets of tees, and the two farther back tees are fairly close and about this location.  The middle (3rd) tee is up to the right on the peninsula you can see in the pic above, probably up ~50 yards from tips, making ~150 to carry.

You can make out the tees in this pic:

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John_Conley

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2005, 03:49:42 PM »
There's plenty of fairway, so I like it.
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Doug Siebert

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2005, 08:42:26 PM »
One good thing about a 200+ carry from the tips off the first tee is that it might make those who don't belong there think twice about playing from the tips!  Though its certainly going to be less intimidating with a high launch 460cc driver and low spin ball than it would have been even five years ago.
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Mike_Cirba

Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2005, 08:48:02 AM »
Ok...I give up.

Whose attempt at emulating Pine Valley might we be looking at this time?  ;)
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2005, 08:56:03 AM »
Quote from: Mike Cirba on August 16, 2005, 08:48:02 AM
Ok...I give up.

Whose attempt at emulating Pine Valley might we be looking at this time?  ;)

It was already guessed correctly above.  I'm not that good at identifying courses.  :)

Every now and then, I don't overlook the obvious.... 8)
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Mike_Cirba

Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2005, 09:03:51 AM »
Fazio at Pronghorn?

Don't tell me he's back to his evil ways?  ;)
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2005, 09:10:22 AM »
And by "obvious", the fact that Matthew refuted Colorado GC and Flying Horse, but not F@P.....  ;)

Those in the investigation profession call that a "clue".   ;D
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Mike_Cirba

Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2005, 09:13:14 AM »
Scott,

I should have known.

If it looks like a Faz...  ;D
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Total Karma: -1
Re:What do you think of this?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2005, 10:04:32 AM »
Pronghorn Fazio is correct.

from www.pronghornclub.com

Hole 1


This medium length, par-4 opening hole features several of Fazio's design elements that make this course spectacular. The tees are staggered along the edge of a lake featuring a large island and have stunning views of the Three Sisters and Mt. Bachelor. A considerable waste-bunker runs all the way down the right side of the hole to a receptive green set into the hillside, and a deep greenside bunker at the base of a rock outcrop guards the left side on the approach.




Hole 1 Yardage

Par - 4

Length - 441

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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”
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