Design and technology

[T_MacWood]

In a recent interview Paolo Antonelli, the curator of Architecture and Design at the Museum of Modern Art, said something interesting about technology and its effect on design. She said limitation is always good for design. In the good old days artists would create on fresco or use oil on canvas, and that was about it. Furniture makers relied upon oak or mahogany, and that is about it. We still admire the product of those artists and craftsmen.

Today you have thousands of materials to work with, and with advent of the computer endless possibilities for graphic design, architecture and so on….and with all these possibilities and materials she says the result is you get “a lot of crap.” And Antonelli is no throw back, after all she is employed by the MOMA.

She believes that the fewer the possibilities, the better design you can actually achieve. She said when technology was less advanced and there was more effort required to create or manufacture a single piece…the artist would think about it a lot more before acting.

Golf architecture has had a number of technological advances over the years….is there any truth to her theory within golf architecture.

[Jason Topp]

In a similar vein, BB King once explained that 12 bar blues reveals the skills of a musician because of the restrictive nature of the format.  There are only two chord changes in 12 measures.  Thus, in his view, it reveals the skill of the musician to perform within those paramaters.

It is interesting that despite the optimism of the golden age architects that courses would improve with increased technology, they really haven't.

[Ian Andrew]

Tom,

It used to take a long time to create an individual wood joint or to mix your own paints (I still make my own colours-from the basic 5- when I paint).

Could it be the loss of thinking time. I had a wonderful philosophy professor (who was an excellent landscape designer) who booked himself one hour a day to think. He felt that hour was important to stimulated his mind towards better creative ideas. He felt many ideas came easily when the brain was given permission to relax. I find many solutions occur to me when I'm in the middle of something else.

Interesting thread.

[Mike Nuzzo]

She believes that the fewer the possibilities, the better design you can actually achieve.

I agree in theory if "you" is a collective you.
If everyone only drew with a pencil, or played the blues with 12 notes, they would all learn from each other and strive to a collective best effort.
If everyone had a different 12 notes, it would be hard to learn much from each other.
If I drew with a fractal progam and Ian with a pencil it would be hard to learn from each other and compare our work.

As a whole, I disagree as there is more room for individual artistry.

Ian
For me I can get in "flow" easiest with no distractions.
I guess, the modern architect has a lot less "flow" time due to all their marketing efforts.
You must get disturbed a lot for you to feel grounded enough to come up with solutions when your mind is elsewhere.

[TEPaul]

While I can certainly understand Ms Antonelli's theory, I wonder how one classifes what she refers to as "a lot of crap". Is Ms Antonelli the final arbiter of what's quality and what's crap in modern art? Perhaps because she's the curator of architecture and design at the Museum of Modern Art Tom MacWood assumes she should be that final arbiter.

Some years ago I went to New York's Museum of Modern Art to see a remarkable collection (traveling) of all Picasso did in his career. It was just amazing the huge variety of art forms and materials he tried at one time or another. I wonder if Ms Antonelli thought half of it was "a lot of crap"?

[T_MacWood]

TE
She didn't say it was all crap.

"Perhaps because she's the curator of architecture and design at the Museum of Modern Art Tom MacWood assumes she should be that final arbiter."

You sound like Pat Mucci.

One of the examples she gave was the use of plastic in design--the dingy white patio furniture that was so prevelant in the 70's. Some of the computer generated art (crap) vs 'Three Musicians' (not crap). Antonelli's area of expertise is design and architecture.

You know there are a number of art crtitcs who believe the last half of Picasso's career was largely crap.

[TEPaul]

"TE
She didn't say it was all crap."

Tom:

Did I say she said that? I just used your words about what she said.

[TEPaul]

But if you want to make an analogy of limiting technology in modern art and design to limiting technology in golf architecture, perhaps the best throw-back to a simpler more natural way in golf architecture would be Bill Coore. Bill claims he does not know how to turn on a computer and he never plans to learn. And when I first met him even his cell phone threw him for a loop. He said he pushed some button and it said he had about 197 messages!  

[Jim_Kennedy]

What she didn't seem to say but it surely is implied is that along with "a lot of crap" you get good stuff too. Pretty much the same track golf architecture has followed from it's inception.

[paul cowley]

 I would agree to the extent that when one can learn to simplify and understand the basic components of design, you can then add back while maintaining control and balance.....without the basics, all too often the results are discordant and excessive.
...my gut feeling about her is that 'sumtime curaters be talkin too much'......

[TEPaul]

Here's a good art curator story Tom MacWould wood appreciate.

This guy I used to know, Tim Husband, was a young intern at the Cloisters Museum (part of the New York Metropolitan Museum).

Thomas Hoving, the director or curator of the Metropolitan Museum and one of the most famous museum directors anywhere, ever, decided to move some ancient stone work at the Cloisters for some enormous event of the Met's.

Hoving told young Husband to look into how to move it. Husband freaked out and told Hoving it couldn't be moved and if anyone tried it they'd ruin it. Hoving (being the dictatorial director he was) told Husband that it had to be moved and to just find the best stone-masons/ stone movers in the world if he had to. So Husband did that----he got some of the world's best stone masons out of Italy and they said even if they tried to move it they'd ruin it.

Husband told Hoving this, and Hoving responded that didn't matter it HAD TO BE MOVED and to just get the Italian stone masons to do it.

Husband freaked out again and told Hoving if he tried to get anyone to move the stone he'd quit the cloisters and throw his body on the stone and be killed before he'd allow anyone to touch it.

The stone remained where it was and Tim Husband was immediately made the curator of the Cloisters by Thomas Hoving!

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWould:

Why does Ms Antonelli have a man's first name? Is it possible she could be a transexual somewhat like little Devie Emmet? If so that might better explain why she thinks 'a lot of art is crap'. Those people can be extremely sensitive you know?

On the other hand, perhaps the world of art needs more out and out roues like Pablo Picasso who could pretty much work with most any material!  

Did you ever hear the story of the time some art toadie was bothering Picasso---following him all over the place. He followed Pablo to the beach and started begging him to draw him a little something even if it was in pencil.

So Pablo took out his most dusty pencil and drew some art on the door of this toadie's car and then Pablo jumped in his car and took off. The toadie jumped in his car and followed Pablo and when they got into town to the toadie's horror the entire pencil drawing on his door had blown off as Pablo roared with laughter.

[Jim_Kennedy]

It's Paola Tom.

Lots cuter than DE.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Actually, she is a throwback.  Modernism is a form of minimalism.  She wants to go back to getting artists to think of "form follows function."  This would focus thinking on function first, and probably reduce the number of materials used.

But I don't think the root of the problem as she sees it is technology, except that it lowers the cost of experimentation and therefore leads to proliferation.  The real problem is not too many materials or too much technology, but not enough thinking.

Rather than cure the root cause, she seems to be proposing removing the tools that enable "not enough thinking" to create crap.

Sounds like a Luddite to me.

[Jim_Kennedy]

The best use of post-it notes I have seen. A wonderful mix of technology and design modeled by another wonderful mix of technology and design, Ms. Antonelli.
 
"Good design is a renaissance attitude that combines technology, cognitive science, human need, and beauty to produce something that the world didn't know it was missing." - Paola Antonelli

[TEPaul]

"It's Paola Tom."

Thank you JimK;

I knew it had to be----it's quite rare if Tom MacWould gets something completely right.  

"......produce something that the world didn't know it was missing." - Paola Antonelli

Does Paola think the Arts and Crafts movement was the primary influence on the "Golden Age of golf architecture" to such an extent that it should be renamed "Arts and Crafts architecture"? Does she think Horace Hutchinson should be known as the "Father" of golf course architecture?  

[Mike Nuzzo]

I thought the post-it note artwork of elvis was much better..

[T_MacWood]

Actually, she is a throwback.  Modernism is a form of minimalism.  She wants to go back to getting artists to think of "form follows function."  This would focus thinking on function first, and probably reduce the number of materials used.

But I don't think the root of the problem as she sees it is technology, except that it lowers the cost of experimentation and therefore leads to proliferation.  The real problem is not too many materials or too much technology, but not enough thinking.

Rather than cure the root cause, she seems to be proposing removing the tools that enable "not enough thinking" to create crap.

Sounds like a Luddite to me.

Mark
Luddite? I don't think so. Probably her most famous exhibition was Mutant Meterials in Contemporary Design. I think she would agree with you bad design is thoughtless design; she defintiely is not recommending the elimination of modern tools and materials.

From what I understand she believes good design is a ballance between form and function. It makes sense to me.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Tom MacWood, sorry couldn't resist. Of course she's not a Luddite; how about reductionist?

The more I think about it, she is really getting at the problem of self-restraint. Technology produces proliferation, and with proliferation comes more crap.  But that's only because technology closes the gap between thought and execution; today, thanks to the democratizing effects of technology, we can all be authors, artists and designers. Reducing materials at hand therefore doesn't seem to address the root cause problem: technology shifts the burden to the artist of whether to decide to produce something, and so: "poor thought process / design principles" + "lack of self-restraint" = crap.

So, as discussed elsewhere on this board, her solution in golf might be to limit the number of projects an architect took on simultaneously.

Thanks for giving me something worthwhile to think about.

Cheers,
Mark

[paul cowley]

...'good design is a rennaissance atitude that combines technolgy, cognitive science, human need, and beauty to produce something that the world didn't know it was missing'
Poalo A.

...is alot of silly crap disquised as a concept, ironically the same stuff she is railing against.....superfilous bullshit masquerading as substance.

and have a nice day.

[T_MacWood]

Paul
It sounds like something a golf architect or resort would write about their latest Myrtle Beach design.

[Rick Shefchik]

In a similar vein, BB King once explained that 12 bar blues reveals the skills of a musician because of the restrictive nature of the format.  There are only two chord changes in 12 measures.  Thus, in his view, it reveals the skill of the musician to perform within those paramaters.

I'm just nitpicking here, Jason, but I don't think B.B. King said there are only two chord chages in a 12-bar blues. There are, depending on how you look it it, either three or seven. There are three chords in a basic blues, and you traditionally change chord positions between the three seven times. You can fiddle with that basic framework in many, many ways, but the I-IV-V progression (that is, in the key of A, for instance, you count: A-b-c-D-E-f-g) is standard.

I'm just sticking up for blues musicians; they wouldn't want people going around thinking they only have to play two chords per song to get paid. Three definitely increases the workload.

Other than that, I agree with your point.

[TEPaul]

Mark Bourgeois;

Excellent posts---very thoughtful.

In golf architecture certainly the increase in technology in the form of construction machinery (particularly heavy machinery) in basically modern time has changed the way many golf architects look at their canvases because they have so much more ability to easily change it instead of spending the time to thoroughly analyze it for golf and figure out how to use it best mostly as it is.

[Jim_Kennedy]

..'good design is a rennaissance atitude that combines technolgy, cognitive science, human need, and beauty to produce something that the world didn't know it was missing'
Poalo A.
...is alot of silly crap disquised as a concept, ironically the same stuff she is railing against.....superfilous bullshit masquerading as substance.
..and have a nice day.

-Paul Cowley

Paul,
Actually, no one really knows if she was truly railing against this 'stuff' or not, all we have are some tidbits from an interview.
If you've got a better definition for design, one that doesn't include anything from her 'concept, let's hear it. I hope you  don't come up with a load of superfluous BS or silly crap.  

[T_MacWood]

Here is the interview...if you hit the forward button, it will cue up the second part of the broadcast which contains her interview.


http://www.wnyc.org/studio360/show080605.html