How do you guys remember ....

[Andy Doyle]

... golf course details?

I make notes as I play. All this does interfere with just playing the course and grinding out the best possible score.

We've all played with guys that can seemingly recall every stroke, score, and hole detail immediately after the round, even on a new course.  I certainly do not fall into that category.

For a while now, I've been logging my shots on my scorecard.  And as I've gotten more interested in GCA, I've started taking some pictures with a small digital camera.  When prompted to comment on this site about some course I've played, I find myself pulling out the scorecard, pouring over the yardage book, reviewing my pictures, etc.

Even worse, when playing a new course I sometimes come dangerously close to brain-lock.  Should I just forget about all this shit and just play?  I certainly play and score better when I do.  

I suppose the ideal situation (for me) would be to have 2 rounds - 1 to just play and enjoy the course and 1 to make notes, take pictures, etc.  That's just not feasible for some situations when you know this is a one-shot deal (e.g. Pebble Beach).

So how do you guys do it?  Is it just one of those things where you either have an eye and the memory for details, or not?

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[Evan Fleisher]

For me personally, I have a somewhat photographic memory for details...so recounting a round, the individual strokes, hole details and the like comes quite naturally to me.

I know of other who like to keep notes on their scorecard, and others yet who take pics (which I like to do sometimes)...but I think that either you've "got it" or not when it comes to being able to remember the details of a course or a around played.

[John_Conley]

Is it just one of those things where you either have an eye and the memory for details, or not?

It might be.  I remember an exchange with a friend who was a D3 All-American in college.  It was just after our round and we were talking about shots HE HIT when he said, "I don't know how you remember anything about the course.  All I do is think about the shot I'm hitting."  People on this board probably think about the shot they are hitting in the context of WHERE they are hitting it.  I don't think he ever could.

[John_Conley]

Andy:

Caddying for Billy Joe Patton in 1986, he hadn't said much all round when he looked off, pointed, and said "Thirteen" to the group.

Someone asked and he said, "That's hole 13, right?" and then proceeded to regale us with a tale of his unlikely comeback in a pivotal Walker Cup match at least thirty years prior.  He had plenty of details, the main one I remember is that he hadn't bee hitting fairways and made a birdie on 13 from the wrong fairway to square what had been an out of control match.

This was at Minikahda when he was in town to officiate for the USGA at the Senior Am won by Bo Williams at Interlachen.  I guess you can tell that people like Patton have a better capacity to recreate thoughts than some others, so it might be natural.

[Mike_Cirba]

Andy,

Like Evan, I've been blessed/cursed with a photgraphic memory when it comes to golf holes.  I can conjure up vivid images of holes on obscure courses I played once 25 years ago.  

As such, you can imagine the amount of clutter in my mental attic!

After playing a course, on the drive home I try to re-play the course again in my mind, first sequentially, and then by hole handicap number.  

That type of reiterative memory exercise helps to cement the holes and course from short to longer term memory.

[Philip Gawith]

Mike - I too sometimes do what you do to try and seal the memory, although with my youthful yet addled memory, the exercise does not work perfectly. But I have only ever tried sequentially - never by the rating of the hole. What is your thinking in this regard?

Come to think of it, I never pay much attention to the rating of holes on a course I am just playing once, unless it is stroke one or two.  More fool me?

[Jimmy Muratt]

For me, it depends on how much I enjoy the course.  If I play a course that I really am enjoying and soaking it all in, then I can remember nearly everything.  For boring courses and those that I'm not that interested in, sometimes everything is a blur and I have trouble recalling specific shots or course features.

[scott_wood]

all very valid comments...your play suffers, twice thrice or more is better than one, post round recollections aid, pics and notes help...
my one additon is that, when playing an "interesting" course for the first time, I dictate thoughts into a 1x4 inch digital recorder (unobtrusively)...and then reduce them to short notes...for what ultimate purpose, though, I'm not sure  

[Dan Kelly]

If I were more serious about this than I am -- if, say, I were in the business of reviewing golf courses or building them -- I would find the smallest tape recorder I could find and dictate notes as I walked. Maybe make some notations on the scorecard, too -- and carry a digital camera.

Until then, I'll remember the holes I really love and the holes I really hate -- and much of the rest will be lost in the pea-soup haze upstairs.

I got the chance to play with Brad Klein (and a couple of chipmunkacidal maniacs, both named Jeff) last year in Northern Minnesota, and he came off the 18th green at Giants Ridge Quarry (first time he'd played it; my second) and walked into the pro shop and started talking with the Super (I think) about specific features of specific holes -- BY NUMBER! I could remember the features, once I'd taken 10 or 15 or 30 seconds to remember which hole was Number Which. If it's not No. 1, 9, 10 or 18, and it's a course I don't know, I have to mentally backtrack or forwardtrack through the course to make the hole/number correlation.

Interesting talent, Brad's. I don't know how uncommon it is.

[Andy Doyle]

I think what I really need is one of those Fear Factor helmet cameras.  Then I could just play my round with everything captured on video and audio.

Wouldn't that be great?  Play the round, then watch yourself play the round - over and over again!

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[George Pazin]

I might want Jamie Slonis to have one of those helmets, but not me!

[Andy Doyle]

If it's not No. 1, 9, 10 or 18, ...

That's my deal, too.  I can usually recall pretty well the early and late holes, but 3-7 & 12-15 all sort of meld together.

I guess it's different talents, or sub-talents as I have a pretty good memory for other types of information.

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[Philippe Binette]

My memory is really good... I remember shot, yardages, holes of courses I've played even 4 or 5 years ago.

The best way to mess me up, if I play a course in a shotgun start once, then I'm done, even if I go back and play it 2 or 3 times...

As far as architecture, I get the spirit of the course if I play a single round. I focus more on details the second times around...

[Doug Wright]

Andy,

I don't know if it can be an acquired trait, but as with Evan and Mike C above this recall seems to be innate for me. My golfing buddies say I remember every hole I've played over the past 42 years and it's quite puzzling to them. I don't think I have done anything special during or after a round except maybe replay the round hole by hole once or twice in my head.

Having said that, I'm now beginning to forget what I remember in other areas so I'm afraid my encyclopedia of golf courses may dwindle too... Guess that's why I need to stay tuned to GolfClubAtlas.com!

[Dan Kelly]

My golfing buddies say I remember every hole I've played over the past 42 years and it's quite puzzling to them.

Tell me what you remember about Inver Wood!

Other than my endless soliloquy on the curse of buckthorn, that is...

PS: Of course, maybe there's just a limited memory supply in any of us. Some guys remember their golf holes; others remember their shoes....

[Doug Wright]

InverWood? That was a tough one. I was trying so hard to remember the holes after that round I forgot my shoes...
(I did like the long par 4 8th and downhill par 3 12th, though...)

[Evan Fleisher]

This thread reminded me of a recent funny golf cartoon...not exactly architecturally related, but you'll get the gist...



...and I wonder why my wife is always mad at me!!!  Better not forget our 10th anniversary coming up on August 19th!  

[Dan Kelly]

InverWood? That was a tough one. I was trying so hard to remember the holes after that round I forgot my shoes...
(I did like the long par 4 8th and downhill par 3 12th, though...)

Great answer -- except that crack about the abysmal 8th.

I'll presume you're just trying to get my goat -- and succeeding!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Yardage books do it for me.

[Jim Thompson]

Remember that all great wisdom can be found in 70's television!


Master Po: You are the new student. Come closer.

Young Kwai Chang Caine: You cannot see.

Master Po: You think I cannot see.

Young Kwai Chang Caine: Of all things, to live in darkness must be the worst.

Master Po: Fear is the only darkness. Take your broom and strike me with it. Do as I tell you, STRIKE! (Misses). Again. (Misses again, and is disarmed). Here, catch. (Poe laughs). Never assume because a man has no eyes he cannot see. Close your eyes. What do you hear?

Young Kwai Chang Caine: I hear the water. I hear the birds.

Master Po:Listen for the color of the sky.  Look for the sound of the hummingbird's wing. Search the air for the perfume of ice on a hot day. If you have found these things, you will know.  Do you hear your own heartbeat?

Young Kwai Chang Caine: No.

Master Po: Do you hear the grasshopper, which is at your feet.



Young Kwai Chang Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?


Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

[Evan Fleisher]

The bald man above looks like a young version of Charles Howell III...doesn't he?

[Doug Siebert]

I'm much better at remembering shots than courses.  That is, I can remember how I played a round a long time ago on a course I've seen once much better than I remember the course itself.  I don't always remember all the shots -- that's generally only on rounds I'm playing well or on a good course I want to remember.

But courses are different.  I can clearly remember every hole at Harbour Town, even though I played there only once as a 15 year old in 1981, even the holes that aren't ever on TV.  Sometimes I'll play a new course and can't remember all the holes before I've even finished the round -- even if I cheat by looking at the hole drawings on the scorecard!  I've seriously had problems on days when I'm not playing too well on a lackluster course I've never seen before if I've neglected to write down my scores for a half dozen holes to remember for sure whether I got a par or bogey, or a bogey or double on some holes because I can't exactly recall the hole to be able to play the shots back in my mind!!

I think courses I find better and more interesting hold in my mind.  Those that have a lot of sameness where a half dozen par 4s kind of melt together in my mind are forgotten immediately.  Being able to remember a course is one clue to me that its better.  Makes it hard to really criticize courses on GCA though, since the ones I really hate I can't remember well enough to know what to complain about -- "it sucks, nuff said" doesn't go over very well here  Otherwise I could go into much more detail about why I don't like, for instance, Mahoney's Point...

[Lou_Duran]

Card and pencil, course guides with shots and comments noted, course map with compass points shown, various other notes on things such as weather, course conditions, unusual features.

I once worked for a guy with a "photographic" memory and a penchant for throwing out figures and statistics on all sorts of arcane subjects.  He was considered to be a braniac and not even the most senior corporate officers would challenge him.  A few of us who knew him well and were subject experts often chuckled at how many serious mistakes he made in his pronouncements without any consequences.  Only once that I am aware of was he ever called on an error- when he missed the annual U.S. corn yield forecast by three or four zeroes- but that didn't seem to impact his credibility nor his compelling need to rattle off figures.

Not to say that some people don't have these skills.  Cirba and Childs certainly seem to.  A former golf colleague not only could remember what shots he hit on a hole of a course he played for the first and only time five years before, he could tell me what I hit and where I ended up.  It was trully amazing, and I never found him to be wrong.

As for me, I remember generalities without notes, but not specifics and small details.  To reflect with any degree of accuracy, I have to put myself in the moment and consult with my notes and other tools.

BTW, I blame my notetaking and preoccupation with the design, presentation, and conditioning of the course for my game going to hell.  It is probably a poor excuse at best, but that's all I have left given that I am okay physically and I remain on a very slippery slope.

Actually, I also blame Mike Cirba for his observation that gca.com may make us into better golfers but worse players (or something to that effect).  There is no way to quantify and disprove the former, but honest handicaps and the spankings I've taken by the likes of Huckaby and Swanson don't refute the latter, at least in my case.  

 

   

[Brent Hutto]

BTW, I blame my notetaking and preoccupation with the design, presentation, and conditioning of the course for my game going to hell.  It is probably a poor excuse at best, but that's all I have left given that I am okay physically and I remain on a very slippery slope.

Lou,

For my part, what you say it absolutely true and its a pretty noticable effect. I can snap a few pictures and still play "my usual game" but any attempt to take notes about the course or statistics about my game makes me play worse.

I've only played with you that one time when you were in serious note-taking mode and I'm pretty sure it affects your game negatively. I'll go out on a limb and state that you and I share the same tendencies in that we're the sort of people who analyze and study things in a very quantitative or "scientific" way. The part of our mind that needs to be working to play golf well is not the numbers-and-evaluation part. Trying to bounce back and forth between geek-mode and play-mode on a shot by shot basis just isn't practical.

Put more simply, being in any sort of flow mode usually results in a sensation of detachment from the details of what's around us. To make a careful evaluation of a golf course's physical condition and design requires the opposite, therefore no flow is possible.

[Lou_Duran]

Brent,

What you saw in CA is typical of what I do, though I have recently stopped taking pictures (it makes me rush too much and I am very bad at that as well).  I do think that you are onto something.

Ideally, I would go to a course and play 18 by myself, do all the note and picture taking, and not be concerned about how I play.  Then, I would go back out sans notes and just play the course with my buds.  Unfortunately, this is a luxury that I have seldom enjoyed.

The mental aspects of golf has become a big industry today.  Despite Jack Nicklaus and Tom Weiskopf or Purtzer as polar examples, I sometimes think that the tendency is to over-think and analyze when we play.  If we would concern ourselves with a few swing fundamentals in practice, and good tempo while we play, perhaps we could be more accomplished players.

I've worked with a few good athletes on the fundamentals.  Nearly all benefited greatly almost immediately.  All but one have regressed over the years as their thinking, swing, equipment, etc. have become more sophisticated.  The one who still plays largely by feel and athletic instinct continues to progress.

Bottom line: a cluttered mind- whether with gca, technique, businees issues, etc.- is not conducive to good golf.  Too bad we can't get a good measure of IQ on the top 500 golfers.  I wonder if there is not a correlation between relatively average IQ within the group and higher performance (ie. low and high IQ scores would be disproportionally represented in the bottom half of the rankings).  Of course, I could be full of it.