A tough summer in Philadelphia

[Craig Sweet]

Steve....Good..some more...some we can't control and others we can influence...

If the goal is to get your course to a healthy point where you don't need to constantly fiddle with it...spray, irrigate, over dose on ferts....Once you are there, shouldn't you be able to go with the flow on those impacts you can't control, and because of the health of the course the other impacts (the HUMAN related impacts) are minimized?

Speaking of maintinance resorces, I bet Huntingdon Valley has cut their spraying budget, their fert. budget, and their irrigation budget by imbracing a long term program (natures way, to quote TE Paul)that has resulted in a healthy golf course.

[Tom_Doak]

I happened to stop through Stonewall today to play golf on my way to Sebonack on Monday.  After reading this thread I was expecting the worst, but both courses are in VERY good shape, and members of Merion are playing as guests while the East course is closed.

So far this year Stonewall has used less than two million gallons of water for each of their 18 holes.  They have just been syringing in the heat ... they haven't really run the irrigation system overnight much at all.

It's amazing what you can do when you water judiciously to keep the Poa annua at bay.

[TEPaul]

Tom Doak:

Four million gallons on 36 holes so far this year? Are you serious? How brown are the Stonewall courses?

[Craig Sweet]

Four million gallons...36 holes...so far this season?  Hmmm....we're putting down about 660,000 gal. every night....so we're doing 4 million gals. in about 5 nights of irrigation.

Today it was 98 degrees again, with about 15 % humidity. A very nice 15 mile an hour wind kicked in around 4pm....our course is pretty firm and fast right now...in fact I crushed a drive tonight that actually kicked up dust when it hit the fairway, and it probably rolled 40 yards....but the greens are a bit soft...sadly.

[TEPaul]

TomD:

If Stonewall thinks they've done four million gallons on 36 holes so far this year I'd say their water meter must have broken no later than the first of June.  

[Bill Gayne]

One inch of rain on one acre requires approximately 27,000 gallons of water. I don't know how many acres that they have irrigated at Stonewall's 36 holes but let's say 200.

For total usage of 4,000,000 it would be the equivalant of .7407 inches of rain (4,000,000 gallons of water divided by 200 acres = 20,000 gallons per acre divided by 27,000 = .7407 inches of rain). Not much water at all. The meter must be broken .

[Craig Sweet]

.7407?

Heck that STILL more water than we got rain in July = .14

[Patrick_Mucci]

I hate carts!  I mean, I understand their convenience, but still....they do a lot of damage.

Like What ?[/color]

Yes, by humans I mean everything...the use of equipment,the thinking, the need to "meddle" with natures way....etc.
If it was natures way, there'd be trees and waist high grass in the fairways, not to mention the weeds and underbrush.[/color]

I'm not a superintendent, but it seems to me that you should always be striving to reduce the impact of humans on how the course plays and allow mother nature to dictate conditions as much as possible.  

That's brilliant.

Perhaps you should talk with a superintendent before posting.[/color]

This is the way I look at it...a healthy person has very little need to see the doctor.  

Deprive a healthy person of water for 120 days and watch what happens to him.

Let him lie out in the sun for 120 days and watch what happens to him.

Let him sleep out in the open at night for 120 days and let's see how long it takes before he contracts pneumonia, lyme disease or other maladies[/color]

A healthy person copes with disease and stress better than an unhealthy person...

More brilliant logic.
By their respective definitions one is already healthy and the other already unhealthy.  Did you know that lblue is blue and red is red ?[/color]

A person can turn to medication and other chemicals to maintain their health or they can take a more holistic approach....either way you might reach a balance...but to my thinking the holistic approach is better in the long term for many number of reasons.

I'll have to tell the doctors at Dana Farber, M.D. Anderson and Memorial Sloan Kettering about your unique approach.

You indicated that you weren't a superintendent, I think it's safe to conclude that you're not a physician.
[/color]

A golf course isn't any different. Golf courses breathe in and out just like you and me...

This is really brilliant stuff.
I can now discontinue my subscription to the "New England Journal of Medicine" and replace it with "Superintendent's News"[/color].

[Craig Sweet]

Hey Pat, whats your problem?

Check the USGA study on carts and soil compaction in fairways.

"Nature's way" is aterm used by TE Paul to discribe maintinence practices at Huntingdon. Do you ever read any of these posts before commenting?

I talk with a Superintendent everyday. The one I work with.

The last I checked the "doctors" at Dana Farber fully embraced a "holistic" approach to health care.

Are you drunk?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hey Pat, whats your problem?

Check the USGA study on carts and soil compaction in fairways.

Wouldn't more empirical conclusions be obtained through the data and reports produced by specific clubs ?

Remind me again, who is it that pays for the golf course.
The Members or Green Peace and the Audabon Society?
Members with heart disease, arthritis, lung problems and a multitude of maladies can play golf thanks to carts.
Don't be so quick to bite the hand that feeds you.[/color]

"Nature's way" is aterm used by TE Paul to discribe maintinence practices at Huntingdon. Do you ever read any of these posts before commenting ?

Huntington .... Long Island, West Virginia or Pennsylvania ?

If you're going to quote that charlatan, TEPaul, as some type of authority on agronomics you're way off base.
He doesn't know dollar spot from a dollar sign.
A Nematode from a Cane Toad.
Agronomy from Astronomy.
The man is totally inept when it comes to agronomy.[/color]

I talk with a Superintendent everyday. The one I work with.

Ask him to edit your comments prior to hitting "post".[/color]

The last I checked the "doctors" at Dana Farber fully embraced a "holistic" approach to health care.

Which ones ?[/color]

Are you drunk?

Not yet, but, if I keep on reading more of your posts, I may be driven to drink ..... excessively. [/color]

[Cliff Hamm]

Members with heart disease, arthritis, lung problems and a multitude of maladies can play golf thanks to carts.

Pat, congratulations, it seems you have done a 180 and are now a great advocate for the disabled and the need for ADA    Couldn't agree more with your statement.

Cliff

[Craig Sweet]

Pat Mucci, obviously you didn't really read my original comments regading carts. I said I hate them, but certainly understand their convenience. But they do a lot of damage.

You can agree or disagree with that statement all you like based on whatever data YOU have at hand.

As for your drinking problem, I suggest you seek help.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, congratulations, it seems you have done a 180 and are now a great advocate for the disabled and the need for ADA    

Cliff, my position remains the same, but, I understand wishful thinking on your part.

You want to take the issue to the extreme such that everyone is accomodated irrespective of the impact on the golf course.  I'm not an advocate of that thinking.[/color]

Craig Sweet,

You may want to read your reply # 100 in its entirety, and not just carve out phrases that suit your purpose.  It's the totality of your comments in relpy # 100, not just a single sentence that conveys your position.

I've seen NO evidence of damage from carts on any of the golf courses I've seen this year.

I'd prefer that golf courses had no carts or cart paths, but, that's not the reality of the situation, and as such, they have to be accomodated.  An intelligent, well managed cart use program can solve the problems.

As to your claim that I have a drinking problem, you're about as well informed on that issue as you are on carts.

And, have you considered that it's your posts that might be driving me to drink, if I did drink ?

[Craig Sweet]

Pat Mucci, you're right, the weight of the cart, with two passengers and their bags, DOES NO damage to the course.

Where do you come up wiht this stuff?

[Craig Sweet]

By the way Pat Mucci, the damage is spelled C-O-M-P-A-C-T-I-O-N.

Would you care to tally the costs of treating compaction on your home course?