I've seen the 2005 list....

[Brian_Gracely]

Some architects will be making more money...

Some owners will be generating more buzz...

GCA.com will probably have a new Top10 "highest views" thread

And one owner probably heard the news and said, "Big deal, the placed hasn't changed since yesterday..."

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

...and there will be some big grins on the faces here at Kiawah!

[Mike_Cirba]

Sandbox,

From my understanding, the rating panel at Golf Magazine is relatively small (and presumably fairly entrenched).

With that being the case, do your sources make any mention of why there seems to be such significant change in this year's rankings?

[Steve_Roths]

My guesses:

Architects making more money = Doak and C&C

Owners = Trump or Keiser or Kohler

Highest View Thread = Sand Hills Top 5

[Brian_Gracely]

Ahh Mr.Cirba, I speak not of the Golfweek list.  

And change is inevitable....

[Geoffrey Childs]

Since the Golf Magazine ratings are expected shortly......

When can we expect Ran's course profile of Trump National Bedminster?  

ps- It's a really fine golf course and about as good as any Fazio I have played.

[Steve Lapper]

You forgot to add that a few owners SPENT more $$$ to get these ratings!!

[Geoffrey Childs]

You forgot to add that a few owners SPENT more $$$ to get these ratings!!

Steve -

Are you implying that golf magazine raters can be bought? I don't see that happening.

[Mike_Cirba]

Ahh Mr.Cirba, I speak not of the Golfweek list.  

And change is inevitable....

Sandbox,

ahh...mea culpa.

I guess when there is only one REAL list (Golfweek), I have to get my mind around the fact that some other lesser ratings are released periodically.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Since the Golf Magazine ratings are expected shortly......

When can we expect Ran's course profile of Trump National Bedminster?  

ps- It's a really fine golf course and about as good as any Fazio I have played.

Geoffrey,

Just for comparison purposes, I know you've played Shadow Creek, Victoria National, World Woods Pine Barrens, and we played Galloway National and Ridge at Back Brook together.  

What other Tom Fazio courses have you played?  You seem to have most of his Top courses covered.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Threadjack-

Mike

I'd put Trump National behind World Woods Pine Barrons and Victoria National and ahead of Shadow Creek and Galloway (this one mainly for the routing and walk in the park and not necessarily the golf holes).  Lets not put Ridge at Back Brook in the same conversation.

Other Fazio's - didn't we play Riviera together  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The Golf Channel tonight on Golf Central showed some of the list. I can recall Trump National in NJ coming in at 48.

[Mike_Cirba]

Threadjack-

Mike

I'd put Trump National behind World Woods Pine Barrons and Victoria National and ahead of Shadow Creek and Galloway (this one mainly for the routing and walk in the park and not necessarily the golf holes).  Lets not put Ridge at Back Brook in the same conversation.

Other Fazio's - didn't we play Riviera together  

Geoff,

Too bad we didn't get to play that other Fazio course together a few weeks back.  Wasn't it called Merion, or something like that?  

Seriously, I've never played SC or VN, but I'd put TN ahead of GN and about equal to WWPB.

Agreed that RABB isn't in the same league.


Steve,

Trump National made the Top 50 courses in the country in Golf Magazine??

Man, here I thought I was going out on a limb by posting what I did a few weeks ago.     If memory serves, some people even accused me of losing my mind, as well as my touch for reviewing golf course architecture.  

I didn't know my opinion would become suddenly mainstream.  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Mike

Don't mention Merion (east) to me   You were better off sleeping in and not answering the phone.  

I can't wait to hear Ran and Jeff's response.

Is Trunp Bedminster a WORLD Top 100?

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike

Don't mention Merion (east) to me   You were better off sleeping in and not answering the phone.  

I can't wait to hear Ran and Jeff's response.

Is Trunp Bedminster a WORLD Top 100?

Geoff,

That's a good question.  I'm not sure if 48 US courses make the World listing, but I'm guessing it's probably close.

I wonder how Hidden Creek did this year?

Also, I was still disappointed that I missed you and Mike.  I would have loved to have played Merion West with you guys.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Mike

Given that you live nearby Merion West is a great treat and a wonderful little course with more teeth then you would think looking at the card. My disapointment was in the expectation of years of "waiting" being realized.

I too will be curious to see where Hidden Creek falls (or rises) as well as Friars Head. If Friars Head is not above #48 then there will have to be some explaining to do (big time).

Steve- do you recall seeing where HC and FH came out?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Geoff

I missed most of the story on the 7pm show. It's rerun at 1130pm tonight so I'll try to catch it again before Michelle Wie appears on Letterman. All I can remember is that the top 5 were listed and 3 new courses were added to the US Top 100.

Steve

[Tommy Williamsen]

Iplayed Trump Bedminster in July.  It has most everything I dislike about archtecture.  Too many uphill shots to the green.  It rewards the player who can hit a high drop shot.  There is very little chance to bump and run.  On the other hand I think it is bunkered exceptionally well.  It just isn't any fun to play.

[Mike_Cirba]

Iplayed Trump Bedminster in July.  It has most everything I dislike about archtecture.  Too many uphill shots to the green.  It rewards the player who can hit a high drop shot.  There is very little chance to bump and run.  On the other hand I think it is bunkered exceptionally well.  It just isn't any fun to play.

Tommy,

Can't a ball be run onto the green on #1, 2, 5, 6 (risky), 9, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 18?  

I agree that many of the greens are perched, elevated, and plateaued, but I'm not sure I agree that they require uni-dimensional high-lofted approaches.  In most cases, there are also safe bail out areas for those players not sure of shooting straight for the pin.  

As far as the fun factor, here's where I think we really disagree.  For instance, I could stand out in the 14th fairway with a bucket of balls trying different approach shots.  

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Trump is at 48 on the top 100 (just saw it on The Golf Channel)

[Steve Lapper]

You forgot to add that a few owners SPENT more $$$ to get these ratings!!

Steve -

Are you implying that golf magazine raters can be bought? I don't see that happening.

ABSOLUTELY F>>>>>G YES!!!!!

[Mike_Cirba]

New York, NY, August XX, 2005 – GOLF MAGAZINE will release its biennial rankings of the Top 100 Courses in the United States and Top 100 Courses in the World in the September 2005 issue (on newsstands August 16).  While the 2005 rankings mark the 20th consecutive year that Pine Valley has retained its number one position on both prestigious lists, 13 newcomers receive recognition for the first time and Nebraska’s remote Sand Hills Golf Club (No. 8 in World) becomes the first modern course to rank on the World list’s top ten.  

“Sand Hills is a forerunner of an emerging trend in golf course design,” said GOLF MAGAZINE Editor David M. Clarke of the course, built in 1995.  “Designers have traditionally focused on building conveniently located courses to provide easy access to a wide range of golfers.  Today, however, many courses rely more on a spectacular setting and a stunning, challenging design to receive national recognition – such as a spot on GOLF MAGAZINE’s Top 100 Courses list – and draw golfers.”

Aligned with that trend, ten of the 13 new courses to join this year’s lists are modern constructions, such as Trump National, which cracked the top 50 on the U.S. list with its debut at No. 48 and is one of three new courses that ranked on both the U.S. and World lists, taking the No. 87 spot in the world.  

With its best holes forming a natural amphitheater on the front nine, real estate mogul and TV boss Donald Trump dreams of hosting a U.S. Open at the Tom Fazio-designed course, built on the Bedminster, New Jersey estate of another larger-than-life mogul, John DeLorean.

Following are the names and ranks of courses making their debut on GOLF MAGAZINE’s 2005 lists of Top 100 Courses in the U.S. and Top 100 Courses in the World listed by rank:  
 
Course
 U.S. Rank
 World Rank
 
Cape Kidnappers (Kerikeri, New Zealand)
 -
 27
 
Barnbougle (Tasmania, Australia)
 -
 49
 
Friar’s Head (Baiting Hollow, NY)
 41
 74
 
Hamilton Country Club (Ontario, Canada)
 -
 84
 
Bandon Trails (Bandon, Ore.)
 47
 86
 
Trump National (Bedminster, NJ)
 48
 87
 
Trump International (W. Palm Beach, Fla.)
 73
 -
 
Cascata (Boulder City, Nev.)
 84
 -
 
Holston Hills (Knoxville, Tenn.)
 86
 -
 
The Bridge (Bridgehampton, NY)
 90
 -
 
Calusa Pines (Naples, Fla.)
 92
 -
 
Tokyo Golf Club (Sayama-City, Japan)
 -
 94
 
Nine Bridges (Jeju Island, South Korea)
 -
 95
 
Six of the top ten courses in the U.S. also ranked in the top ten in the world.  Following are the names of the top ten courses on GOLF MAGAZINE’s 2005 lists of Top 100 Courses in the U.S. and Top 100 Courses in the World listed by rank (and 2003 rank):

U.S. Courses
 Rank
 World Courses
 Rank
 
Pine Valley (Clementon, NJ)
 1 (1)
 Pine Valley (Clementon, NJ)
 1(1)
 
Cypress Point (Pebble Beach, Calif.)
 2 (2)
 Cypress Point (Pebble Beach, Calif.)
 2 (2)
 
Augusta National (Augusta, Ga.)
 3 (4)
 St. Andrews (Old Course) (Scotland)
 3 (6)
 
Shinnecock Hills (Southampton, NY)
 4 (3)
 Augusta National (Augusta, Ga.)
 4 (5)
 
Pebble Beach (Pebble Beach, Calif.)
 5 (5)
 Shinnecock Hills (Southampton, NY)
 5 (4)
 
Sand Hills Golf Club (Mullen, Neb.)
 6 (7)
 Pebble Beach (Pebble Beach, Calif.)
 6 (7)
 
Merion (East) (Ardmore, Pa.)
 7 (
 Muirfield (Gullane, Scotland)
 7 (3)
 
Pacific Dunes (Bandon, Ore.)
 8 (11)
 Sand Hills Golf Club (Mullen, Neb.)
 8 (11)
 
Oakmont (Oakmont, Pa.)
 9 (9)
 Royal County Down (Newcastle, N. Ire.)
 9 (10)
 
Pinehurst No. 2 (Pinehurst, NC)
 10 (6)
 Royal Melbourne (Composite) (Melbourne, Australia)
 10 (
 
To determine the rankings, GOLF MAGAZINE’s course-rating panel, consisting of prominent players, administrators, journalists and architects (note:  participating architects were not allowed to rate courses they designed), gave one subjective grade to each of the 545 nominated courses they played.  The panel’s votes were also weighted to favor courses they have played during the past five years.  

This year, GOLF MAGAZINE is also inviting aspiring golf course architects to submit their own sketches of a par-5 hole to GOLF MAGAZINE’s “Armchair Architect Contest.”  

Renowned golf course architect Tom Doak – who saw his two newest courses, Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle, join the Top 100 in the World list this year – will select the winner based on the merits of the design (not the sketch) and the winner will earn the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to accompany the course designer on an all-expense paid trip to Montana, Mexico or Scotland (schedule may vary) to consult on one of his exclusive projects.  

Check out the September 2005 issue of GOLF MAGAZINE for details on the “Armchair Architect Contest” and to see a complete list of the Top 100 Courses in the U.S. & the World.
***

GOLF MAGAZINE® is a leading golf media company and top authority on the game of golf, with a monthly circulation of 1.4 million golf enthusiasts and a readership of 5.9 million.  Its publishing, Internet and event assets have a combined audience of more than nine million golfers.  The magazine's Web site, GOLFONLINE.com® is ranked No. 1 for reaching golfers.  GOLF MAGAZINE is published by Time4 Media® a subsidiary of Time Inc., which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Time Warner Inc. (NYSE: TWX).

 

[T_MacWood]

Who designed Nine Bridges in Korea?

I will be submitting my plan for a par-5 for the Golf Magazine contest, and I'm confident I will be selected winner by Tom Doak, so don't bother.

I'm having difficulty deciding if I should go to Montana, Mexico or Scotland...I'm lean toward Montana and I'm hoping Matt Ward will join me.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Why is the Goose signing deals at Trump National???

The Trumpster sure knows how to create buzz.



Goosen has unfinished business at PGA
Web Posted: 08/09/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Richard Oliver
San Antonio Express-News

BEDMINSTER, N.J. — Less than a day after winning his first PGA Tour event this year, Retief Goosen found himself standing in light rain outside the grandiose clubhouse at the Trump National golf course.

A wearying trek had begun early Monday in Castle Rock, Colo., site of his Sunday victory at The International, and included a weather-detoured flight to White Plains, N.Y., and an unexpected hour's drive south into the heart of New Jersey.

It still left Goosen about 30 miles from where he wanted to be.

The South African stopped by the year-old Donald Trump-owned layout to sign a five-year deal with TaylorMade, but his attention was largely focused on his looming first visit to the site of this week's PGA Championship, menacing Baltusrol Golf Club in nearby Springfield.

"All I've seen are pictures in a golf magazine," said Goosen, 36. "It looks like one of those old-fashioned courses, and I suspect it's going to play like one."

The world's fifth-ranked player tackles the first of two scheduled practice rounds at Baltusrol this morning and goes into the outing hoping to keep his game on track after a season that has proven particularly frustrating at the majors. Final-round stumbles at the U.S. and British opens the past two months doomed realistic title hopes.

"I don't know why those bad rounds came around," Goosen said, shrugging. "Maybe my preparation wasn't good enough. I just haven't played well this year. I can't seem to put four good rounds together."

That proved particularly costly for Goosen at the U.S. Open in Pinehurst, N.C. There, the lead he took into Sunday's final round evaporated when he staggered to a closing 84, a stunning implosion for a competitor known for his gritty demeanor under pressure.

"I was trying my backside off out there," Goosen said. "But after I reached No. 11, I knew it was all over. The mental side of the game really fell away, and I couldn't get anything going."

Baltusrol, a par-70 layout spanning almost 7,400 yards, likely won't help his psyche much, either. The A.W. Tillinghast-designed course, which averages roughly 30 yards width on its fairways and sports nasty Kentucky Bluegrass clogging the rough, includes the longest hole in major championship history, the 655-yard No. 17.

History works against Goosen, as well. Though an emerging force on the professional landscape, the steady player has fared poorly in his PGA Championship stops, making the cut only three times in seven attempts. His best showing, a tie for 23rd, came three years ago and is his only Top-25 finish.

Baltusrol, founded in 1895, has hosted six U.S. Open championships. Goosen, a six-time PGA Tour winner who has won two of the past four Open crowns, is considered a favorite to challenge defending champion Vijay Singh and resurgent Tiger Woods for the Wanamaker Trophy.

A seamless all-around game and the stoic resilience that has defined his career make Goosen a primary threat on the exacting Baltusrol layout.

"I would like to look at it that way," Goosen said of his scrappy reputation. "It's only a game at the end of the day, and that's how I play it. At least, that's how it is for me."

[Tommy Williamsen]

To Mike Cirba,  I am going back to Trump next month.  I;ll try to go as if I am playing it for the first time.  In other words with an open mind.