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T_MacWood

Mexico
« on: July 27, 2005, 11:25:48 PM »
Everyone acknowledges the fine golf courses is Canada, what about are other large neighbor to the south. Does Mexico suffer from the same issues as Texas--bad soil and bad grass? Any unknown gems south of the border?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Mexico
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2005, 12:03:18 AM »
Tom:

There were very few golf courses built in Mexico during our "Golden Age," as conditions and the economy were much different there.  The desert conditions and lack of fresh water supplies kept golf development very restrictive until just recently.

The Golden Age of golf course development in Mexico is right now.  I get a call about some new project in Mexico about once every month or two, and I'm certain I'm not hearing about some of the best of them.

The "unknown gem" I've heard the most about is El Tamarindo.  Cabo del Sol is a truly great course, even if somewhat infringed upon by housing.  Eldorado used to be in the same class, but all of the oceanside holes are now being moved to make room for oceanfront lots ... a shame.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mexico
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2005, 12:04:03 AM »
TomM...I don't feel Mexico will suffer from anything it can't overcome, and its time is just really starting.....great land and people.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 12:06:04 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

T_MacWood

Re:Mexico
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2005, 10:46:32 AM »
I understand Bredemus built some courses in Mexico...are any of those courses any good? Another course that looks interesting is Agua Calente (spelling?)...designed by Billy Bell. I believe I read something about MacKenzie checking it out. Is it still alive?

Chris Munoz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mexico
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2005, 07:51:28 PM »
I am from Mexico, Mexico City to be specific....I think some gems are Club de Golf in Mexico City and Bosque de Real, located north of the city in the moutains, a Nicklaus design, I think one of the sons did it....It used to hold a senior tour event there a couple of years ago...And I agree with Tom on Cabo de Sol, a Jack course...What a amazing site and course....

Muni
Christian C. Munoz
Assistant Superintendent Corales
PUNTACANA Resort & Club
www.puntacana.com

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mexico
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2005, 08:44:19 PM »
I understand Bredemus built some courses in Mexico...are any of those courses any good? Another course that looks interesting is Agua Calente (spelling?)...designed by Billy Bell. I believe I read something about MacKenzie checking it out. Is it still alive?
maybe you are referring to tijuana country club.  its got some interesting holes on the back nine.  at least i think it was the back-not sure if they sent me out on the back first, so then i mean the front is interesting.  :)
also in baja norte, bajamar has some beautiful ocean holes-even more beautiful then cabo del sol and about on a par with the holes that el dorado is going to lose.  the course itself isnt anywhere near as interesting as the other two from an architecture standpoint though.  

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mexico
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2005, 05:30:46 AM »
Muni, I toured Mexico City with my college golf team maybe 7-8 years ago now, and I have to say that nothing I saw impressed me - even Club de Golf Mexico seemed like little more than your garden variety parkland course, and certainly not worthy of its former ranking in GOLF magazine's top 100 in the world (which smells a lot like regionalism at work). We didn't play Bosque de Real, FWIW. On that trip we also played Tres Vidas in Acapulco - they had a senior tour event there a few years back - which mostly looked like a garden variety Florida resort course, although it was nicely manicured and did have a really neat par 3 on the waterfront, with the green raised above the beach by a stone wall.

Now, about 15 years ago I played Pok-ta-Pok, the RTJ design in Cancun - it was in pretty beaten-down condition, but I thought it had a reasonable amount of character (and a nice double green by the ocean, I want to say on the 10th and 17th holes). It also passed through some very Third World housing developments, which was very interesting from a sociological standpoint but not so good for the majority of golfers that isn't keen to have visible housing of any sort within sight of one's golfing experiences. No idea what it's like at the moment, though...that was indeed a long time ago!

Cheers,
Darren

Phil_the_Author

Re:Mexico
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2005, 07:10:50 AM »
There is some unique history to golf courses in Mexico. In writing about Willie Smith, eldest of the Carnoustie golfing brothers, he said how, "he went down to mexico, where for years he was professional at the Country Club. He died there. Back in 1934, I stood in the room he occupied at the golf club at Mexico City. There were bullet holes in the plaster and woodwork, bullets fired there during the revolutionary battle, which was waged fiercely around the clubhouse, with the valiant Scot holding the fort until he had to flee for his life with his door battered down behind him."

Also, probably to visit him, a number of great Scottish players made the long trip down to see him as well. Tilly also once related this anecdote about Ben Sayrs and Andrew Kirkaldy. "Your correspondent had a most important experience with Ben Sayers when the Wild West Show was in Philadelphia. We went out together and after a special permit had given us entrée to the sections which the Indians used, the little man from North Berwick was in ecstasy. It seems that his rival, Andrew Kirkaldy, returned from Mexico some years ago with some startling stories of his adventures among bandits and Indians, and after I had assured him that these certainly were much wilder than anything that Ander had seen in Mexico, Ben vowed that, 'Ander had better not come around him with any more of his Swank.'"

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mexico
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2005, 12:48:03 AM »
Mexico is just getting started. I have visited courses in El Salvador and deep Mexico. As many know, we are just about to open The Links at Las Palomas in Peñasco — about 3.5 hours drive south of Phoenix. Las Palomas is on the dunes above the Sea of Cortez. It is quite a wonderful site.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mexico
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2005, 11:39:51 AM »
There is some great golf down in Cabo.  The Ocean Course at Cabo del Sol is indeed a wonderful course that presents great variety throughout the round.  There are some excellent risk/reward holes and the seaside holes are fantastic.  The experience also is a highlight.  The free tacos during the round are outstanding and something to definitley look forward to.  

Although not playing the Weiskopf's Desert Course, from what I saw and heard, it's also well worth playing.  

Querencia is also a very good Fazio set back in more mountainous terrain.  It's a dramatic piece of land and one of my favorite Tom Fazio courses.  It's never crowded (course is private but offers some limited play to a couple resorts including Las Ventanas).  There was a Shell's match at Querencia a couple years ago between Sergio and Mickelson.


Matt_Ward

Re:Mexico
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 06:21:09 PM »
I have always found Bajamar to be a wonderful layout -- located just outside Escondido. The 27-hole layout is right alongside the Pacific Ocean and has been called by natives as the poor man's equivalent Pebble Beach South of the Border.

I would not classify the course in that company but for the dollars it charges and the quality of the holes it certainly behooves a visit for those in the nearby SoCal area.

The two nines I enjoyed the best are the Ocean and Vista (74.7 cr / 138 slope). I believe the top rate on the weekend is still $80 -- quite a bargain for something so near to the States. The site is bajamar.org

One other note -- it will be interesting to see the finished work of Forrest Richardson and The Links at Las Palomas in the Puerto Penasco area -- just south of the AZ border on the Gulf of California. I was there this past Spring and the holes and land quality indeed have much to offer. The finished product should be ready to go this Fall.

henrye

Re:Mexico
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2005, 09:55:38 PM »
Tom,

I don't know if you'd call it an "unknown gem", but I certainly think that Von Hagge's Isla Navidad is a gem.  It's just down the road from El Tamarindo, and while it gets much more publicity than El Tamarindo, both courses seem to be relatively unknown - at least compared to Cabo.  The Cabo courses appear to be praised fairly highly here, and I'll admit that a few of them deliver max on the eye candy and well on the individual hole layouts, but they are epitome of cart/resort courses with big distances from green to tee.  Navidad is a gem that delivers on all fronts, but given the choice, you'll probably want a cart anyways with the heat and humidity.

Another course, further down the coast which I wouldn't call a gem, but is more of a classic is the old Las Hadas course in Manzanillo where Bo Derek and Dudley Moore filmed '10'.  Some of the holes are terrific, but unfortunately some are similar to an old RTJ Florida course with no maintenance budget.  One hole I remember there is a par 4 with an elevated green almost completely surrounded by sand.  The hole looks like a volcano.

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